What Makes a Knife a Work of Art?

jideta

jideta

Joined
Apr 8, 2020
Messages
2,099
First of all, I'm an artist.
Kinda like a knife maker in that I make stuff to use and then I make stuff just for looks (ceramics).
Currently, I'm ridding myself of my production folders and moving towards forged fixed blades.
My preference right now is function; I like blades that look forged and are. Not so interested in knives where a ton of work was put into it.
Which is something of a reversal for me!
Close inspection of my work and you will see how anal I am!

Yes! I like too, beautifully finished knives. Mirror polish, piano black.
Knives that I consider works of art; knives I would never think of actually using but really like looking at.
Which begs the question: what makes a knife a work of art?
Is it form over function? Design? Materials? Craftsmanship? Innovation? Paper thin hollow grind?
What extra do you do to push your work from utilitarian to collectable?

What say ye artisans and collectors?

P.S. I consider all my knives works of art (actually I consider almost anything handmade art), even though most can be generously called 'rustic.' Right now I am enamored with the hammered, hand made look. Wharncliffes please!
 
An item in itself can never be art. It's the context and the beholder/user that determines an items current classification (that can be more than one at any given time, and different from one context and time to another). Take that mirror polished, piano finish knife and put it the hands of a poor farmer, and that knife will be a tool, not art. However, put that same knife in a piece of old cheese, stacked on top of a deflated football, and display it in a gallery, the visitors of that gallery might view the knife as art - different people in a different context, same item. You can though easily imagine occations and items that are hard to classify.
 
I never mind revisiting this topic. It's a smart one. :thumbsup:

We don't NEED consensus, but recognizing different viewpoints is ALWAYS enlightening.

It's the "A knife is meant to be used!" Comments which start derailing the conversation.... :eek:

Joakim Lööv said:
Take that mirror polished, piano finish knife and put it the hands of a poor farmer, and that knife will be a tool, not art. However, put that same knife in a piece of old cheese, stacked on top of a deflated football, and display it in a gallery, the visitors of that gallery might view the knife as art - different people in a different context, same item.
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Haha! What a wonderfully visual description. :p I wish I had a photo. :)

I'll have more to say later.
 
Joakim Lööv said:
An item in itself can never be art. It's the context and the beholder/user that determines an items current classification (that can be more than one at any given time, and different from one context and time to another). Take that mirror polished, piano finish knife and put it the hands of a poor farmer, and that knife will be a tool, not art. However, put that same knife in a piece of old cheese, stacked on top of a deflated football, and display it in a gallery, the visitors of that gallery might view the knife as art - different people in a different context, same item. You can though easily imagine occations and items that are hard to classify.
Click to expand...

im not sure I understand that. If a homeless man used the canvas of a Picasso painting as a blanket what does that mean for the painting? Something can’t inherently be art?
 
The guitar fretboard knife is a fun one, Ray.

Ok, the questions was what makes a knife a work of art, not what makes a knife an "art knife"? The wording makes a difference. The answer to the question asked will be quite broad and subjective. The answer will depend on the viewer.

There have been threads before discussing whether or not knifemaking is an art or a craft. Is making an artful knife a craft? Yes indeed. Is making a utilitarian knife artful? To varying degrees, yes. We often see threads where someone has received a knife they purchased which they describe as "a work of art". We may see it as a pretty ubiquitous drop point hunter, bowie or whatever. What affects our opinions are as varied as our personalities and life experiences. Of course there are no wrong answers. If you feel it to be a work of art then it is.
 
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For me, it is when aesthetics and execution exist in sublime balance. Obviously this is subjective. There are several makers here that I think produce art-like works.
 
Not looking for a consensus here. I understand each will have his/her own interpretation.
What I was sort of looking for is as an individual, when/how do you determine what you are making is functional or art?
I make a bowl.
Is it art? My intention is make a functional piece.
Wayne Higby makes bowls that are never meant to be used and are works of art.
In my case, I remove function from my vessels (vessels that aren't intended to actually hold anything and in some cases couldn't hold anything even if you wanted it to!) and I consider that my art.
Coming from ceramics, the line between craft and art is blurred; again, I tend to consider hand made things art and the craftsman an artist. Especially if the quality of work is high. Authenticity and creativity. Hand crafted items have a soul.

Let me try this tack:
For me, bowls pay the bills (not really, I teach. But in reality bowls and functional stuff is what sells). I read that for knife makers cutlery, kitchen knives are money.
I don't want to get into a debate about whether or not you make stuff for money, but in most cases you gotta sell stuff to make more stuff, no?
So when you make stuff you don't expect to sell, what do you do different for the blades you do for your own expression?
Do you make knives that are never intended to cut anything?
What sets those knives apart?
 
jideta said:
First of all, I'm an artist.
Kinda like a knife maker in that I make stuff to use and then I make stuff just for looks (ceramics).
Currently, I'm ridding myself of my production folders and moving towards forged fixed blades.
My preference right now is function; I like blades that look forged and are. Not so interested in knives where a ton of work was put into it.
Which is something of a reversal for me!
Close inspection of my work and you will see how anal I am!

Yes! I like too, beautifully finished knives. Mirror polish, piano black.
Knives that I consider works of art; knives I would never think of actually using but really like looking at.
Which begs the question: what makes a knife a work of art?
Is it form over function? Design? Materials? Craftsmanship? Innovation? Paper thin hollow grind?
What extra do you do to push your work from utilitarian to collectable?

What say ye artisans and collectors?

P.S. I consider all my knives works of art (actually I consider almost anything handmade art), even though most can be generously called 'rustic.' Right now I am enamored with the hammered, hand made look. Wharncliffes please!
Click to expand...

sounds like you take a more Platonic view. Where Art is more or less a distraction from Truth, and therefore its value is completely subjugated to the ideals of the observer. I understand the validity of this argument, particularly when applied to utilitarian objects like knives.

I'm more with Aristotle, though, and personally think that Art is Truth;
“The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance.”
To my way of thinking, the Truth inherent in Art is timeless and intrinsic with the object itself. Regardless of whether or not the person observing comes to the conclusion on a personal level, the piece carries with it the value of its Truth in perpetuity. I feel that this outlook provides more flexibility and less reliance on creating a dichotomy in order to create any absolutes.

This is never a bad subject for discussion- I think the opposite is true. If everyone can understand the fact that this is an extremely old topic, with no resolution, then we can share our ideas without offending each other, and all learn something from one another.
 
Lorien said:
sounds like you take a more Platonic view. Where Art is more or less a distraction from Truth, and therefore its value is completely subjugated to the ideals of the observer. I understand the validity of this argument, particularly when applied to utilitarian objects like knives.

I'm more with Aristotle, though, and personally think that Art is Truth;
“The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance.”
To my way of thinking, the Truth inherent in Art is timeless and intrinsic with the object itself. Regardless of whether or not the person observing comes to the conclusion on a personal level, the piece carries with it the value of its Truth in perpetuity. I feel that this outlook provides more flexibility and less reliance on creating a dichotomy in order to create any absolutes.

This is never a bad subject for discussion- I think the opposite is true. If everyone can understand the fact that this is an extremely old topic, with no resolution, then we can share our ideas without offending each other, and all learn something from one another.
Click to expand...

I understand each individuals personal experience determines art.
In my case I only look for authenticity; originality and workmanship, etc. In other words I'm not looking at it from the audience end, but the creators side.

Sometimes I make things I never intend to sell.
I've just got too much time and effort in it and I could never get what I got into it. Most end up as gifts, some I still got.
Ever look at one of your creations and say, this baby ain't going anywhere!
 
Is this Larry Fuegen folder a "Work of Art"? I'd say YES, definitely!

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From my own particular perspective:

I do not set out thinking I am going to make a work of art. I only set out to do the best I can. If someone thinks the end product is "a work of art" I take it as a nice compliment and maybe some slight indication that my work is achieving a modicum of respect among the truly accomplished and talented makers in this community. I charge what I feel is a competitive price and fitting for the workmanship I offer but I doubt I'm even making a profit. That's on me because I'm so damn slow. But regardless of whether the client is living on food stamps or "livin' large", what these knives fetch is still a lot of money for a knife. The client deserves my best effort.

That said, I don't make knives for clients. I make knives for myself. I make knives because I love knives. And being a creative person with lots of ideas in my head I have to try to translate those ideas into working tools. My main interest as a maker is fairly simple working knives but well-designed. Even though my knives are intended to be utilitarian they seem to end up in "collections" which is slightly annoying, hahahaha. I plead with customers to use them and give me feedback but I rarely get feedback. I'm not complaining too much. It's a compliment and I'm flattered. But those of you who are familiar with my work know it's pretty basic stuff. No damascus, no inlays, no engraving, no precious metals or stones. Just well designed and well built. My background and my degree is in illustration and design. Art has been important to me all my life. In other makers' work I appreciate all kinds of ideas, from the absolutely outlandish and impractical to the deftly efficient and clever and everything inbetween. For my stuff I try to keep it simple, at least for now. This allows me to spend extra attention on the larger points like line, proportion, symmetry, balance, fit and finish etc. I feel that if you get those things right, adding a bunch of embellishment won't add as much as it detracts.

Having too much time in a piece is never part of the equation for me. It takes as long as it takes. Whether or not I'm upside down on the knife it still needs to find a home. The knives I feel are the best I've ever done will hopefully pale in comparison to what is to come so I don't get too attached to them. To me they are just tools. Whether or not they are works of art is for others to judge.
 
Nicely thoughtful and articulate responses here, guys. I have learned again.

I consider myself VERY left-brained. I need symmetry and pleasant curves to satisfy my ability to call something as art.

Some folks have a VERY broad scope of what they see as art and how they relate. I don't. I'm perplexed more often than not at sculpture, painting and other items which are purposeful ONLY as art. Really? :confused:

But that's MY limitation.

I know I also create 'art' with every image I capture. How can I show this so the viewer sees many details and broad aspects, and also have an 'overall' symmetry and look with the components layout. I pride myself in learning this. (10,000 hours ;))

Back to the subject: A well designed knife can be both functional and VERY artistic. (Marc, you come immediately to mind, as do others.) Beautiful lines and curves have, and give us, a sense of beauty. it is for this reason collectors (myself included) do NOT want to scar this object beholden.

So, it may not get used as a functional tool, but as an aesthetic tool. It serves us either way.

Here's an OLD photo of one of my favorites Don Hanson made for me over 10 years ago. It has not cut a piece of paper. Nor will it while I own it. However, you may see, like I do, it's beauty in shape and form. This is my favorite Knife art.

orig.jpg
 
SharpByCoop said:
Nicely thoughtful and articulate responses here, guys. I have learned again.

I consider myself VERY left-brained. I need symmetry and pleasant curves to satisfy my ability to call something as art.

Some folks have a VERY broad scope of what they see as art and how they relate. I don't. I'm perplexed more often than not at sculpture, painting and other items which are purposeful ONLY as art. Really? :confused:

But that's MY limitation.

I know I also create 'art' with every image I capture. How can I show this so the viewer sees many details and broad aspects, and also have an 'overall' symmetry and look with the components layout. I pride myself in learning this. (10,000 hours ;))

Back to the subject: A well designed knife can be both functional and VERY artistic. (Marc, you come immediately to mind, as do others.) Beautiful lines and curves have, and give us, a sense of beauty. it is for this reason collectors (myself included) do NOT want to scar this object beholden.

So, it may not get used as a functional tool, but as an aesthetic tool. It serves us either way.

Here's an OLD photo of one of my favorites Don Hanson made for me over 10 years ago. It has not cut a piece of paper. Nor will it while I own it. However, you may see, like I do, it's beauty in shape and form. This is my favorite Knife art.

orig.jpg
Click to expand...

Off topic but I admire your images.
If you can share: what are shooting at?
I've tried 50mm @f8, 35mm @ f8-f11, haven't busted out the macro yet...but I'm sure DOF must suck even more.
Are you using a long portrait lens? 85-105mm? I don't have one of those...
Just can't seem to get the sharpness I need.
 
Art can be had in the balance and feel of an object and in its beauty and the lines can cross

before all this horrible covid issue I was taking my mother a few times a month to the many museums in the north east

The arms and armor exhibits especially at the Met were and are incredible

it seems of all tools weapons and hunting tools find their way to the highest quality and expression of the many faces of art

Pennsylvania rifles







This blade to me is high art















Henry the 8th



This set is crazy













 
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