What Sharpening Jig has the Best Clamps

[fvdk]

One of the oldest and good old trusted systems, Lansky, already had it figured out in the late 70's / early 80's with their 2 part clamp...it's been 40 years and many guys still haven't figured out how to even use the Lansky clamp.

Lansky copied / stole the design from Loray but you are right, many user have not figured out how to use it properly.
I have a Wicked Edge, KME, TS Prof Blitz and a number of other systems but the Loray and Lansky are still my favorite for most of my pocket knives.

 

[MashMaster]

Lansky copied / stole the design from Loray but you are right, many user have not figured out how to use it properly.
I have a Wicked Edge, KME, TS Prof Blitz and a number of other systems but the Loray and Lansky are still my favorite for most of my pocket knives.

That’s part of the design process balancing technical performance with ease of use. Clay at wicked edge has done a good job with cam and pin that have wiggle to lock in distal taper. Albeit still needs a low angle adapter. I would like at least a clamp that gets down to 10 degrees and less for taller knives like a nakiri user ease is an important just as you said lansky clamps are often not clamped correctly. Having had a Landry and a gen one wicked edge thry are chalk and cheese

 

[Gritomatic]

So I will not ask you your favourite clamp but what's the easiest to use clamp, best centring clamp and all rounder.

easiest to use. A pair of whole milled clamps (any brand), flat inside, single tightening screw, maximum gap. TSProf decision to use whole milled clamps in all K03 kits and upcoming Kadet is right. (I prefer the fillet version for K03 over the regular one but not all knives fit.)
best centring. Hapstone Central spring-type clamp for R2 is unbeatable. It can be used solo or together with supporting clamps, capable to secure almost any blade with large contact spot area and very acute sharpening angle. (K03 Single Fillet Clamp is 2nd place.)
all rounder. Hapstone Universal Angled spring-type clamps provide extraordinary versatility. It can be primary or supporting. It can be central or side. It can be flat or FFG. It can hold ultra thin fillet blade, or 9 mm thick blade. Very acute angles for real knives. Can be calibrated.

The split central clamp from KakBritva is a candidate for best centering. This wholemilled clamp was designed to handle distal taper FFG. Need to test.

 

[MashMaster]

easiest to use. A pair of whole milled clamps (any brand), flat inside, single tightening screw, maximum gap. TSProf decision to use whole milled clamps in all K03 kits and upcoming Kadet is right. (I prefer the fillet version for K03 over the regular one but not all knives fit.)
best centring. Hapstone Central spring-type clamp for R2 is unbeatable. It can be used solo or together with supporting clamps, capable to secure almost any blade with large contact spot area and very acute sharpening angle. (K03 Single Fillet Clamp is 2nd place.)
all rounder. Hapstone Universal Angled spring-type clamps provide extraordinary versatility. It can be primary or supporting. It can be central or side. It can be flat or FFG. It can hold ultra thin fillet blade, or 9 mm thick blade. Very acute angles for real knives. Can be calibrated.

The split central clamp from KakBritva is a candidate for best centering. This wholemilled clamp was designed to handle distal taper FFG. Need to test.

Just to confirm the best centring the Central Y-Shaped Clamp for Hapstone R2

All rounder. I can see how two Universal Angled Clamps for Hapstone R2 (Pair)basically give you the versatility of a Central Y clamp or two clamps spread further apart for a larger knife.

I assume a pair of whole milled clamps will work better than one piece even with two jacking screws to adjust for FFG and distal taper. Maybe the single slotted from KakBritva will do the job in a single piece. Less fiddling I guess. The milling on the KakBritva with non flat surface inside face the clamps look really good.

From somebody that has only used single clamps like the wicked edge, do you get much of an issue with multiple clamps and clamp alignment along the blade, I assume thinner blades with flex like a fillet knife you might notice it like clamping a bowie knife its going to straighten the clamps out, clamping a thin laser kitchen knife any alignment issues might assert forces where you dont want them.

 

[000Robert]

That’s part of the design process balancing technical performance with ease of use. Clay at wicked edge has done a good job with cam and pin that have wiggle to lock in distal taper. Albeit still needs a low angle adapter. I would like at least a clamp that gets down to 10 degrees and less for taller knives like a nakiri user ease is an important just as you said lansky clamps are often not clamped correctly. Having had a Landry and a gen one wicked edge thry are chalk and cheese

Here it is.

 

[Man'ko]

Congratulations to all forum participants ...
I haven't been on the forum for a long time - I see a very interesting topic for me.
But I do not speak English, so I apologize
(I use Google)
Clamping the knife blade does not seem like a difficult task, but the problem is the versatility of this clamp.
This is clearly shown in the video above.
The clamp should clamp thin blades - 1 mm, thick - 5 mm and more, blades with different angles of descent + descents from the handle to the tip of the blade.
This puzzle took me a lot of time, effort and money.
That's what I stopped-
ticks clamp dead
- blades with a thickness of 5 mm - to zero
-blade with descents from the butt and the handle of any angle ...
- if the blade has a width of 20 mm - the minimum sharpening angle is less than 12 degrees
To sharpen extremely narrow or thick knives, I use a magnet. The sharpening angle on it can be zero degrees.
Pliers use screws to adjust and fix the knife blade along the axis + blades with poor geometry (no manufacturer) can be reduced to zero.
Initially, these pliers had a cone that centered the blade automatically, but these were pliers for ideal knives .... the pliers perfectly clamped the calibrated plates - where the sides go strictly at 90 degrees to the plane of intersection. With knives it is a great rarity - especially those made to order.
And such knives either swayed, if not sat down to the end, or they were twisted ...

 

[Man'ko]

 

[Man'ko]

I purchased a gen 1 wicked edge I guess this is from being an early adaptor mine is ready for the bin
- both locking pins stripped the very shallow aluminium thread so no longer lock in in place tightly even with a few wraps of teflon tape to try to snug it down
-the jacking screw in the in the clamp broke I swapped it around with the clamping one. It works but at low angles I am now hitting the screw
-the diamond stones I binned ages ago, I know they dont last forever like DMT diamond stones but for the small surface area of the small stones and that most of the abrasion is done in the middle of the stone they are a cheap and nasty solution will be looking at resin diamond stones for a bit more longevity. I found the ceramic stones complete garbage my 5000 grit chosera stones cut faster than the 1600 ceramic stone.
-I purchased direct chosera stones 5000/10000 almost as much as the wicked edge for just a single set they have cracked into a million pieces there is a reason they dont sell them anymore and because they dont work well for it. If I saw smart and stored them in sealed containers so they dont dry out too fast it might have been ok.

I know a number of these problems have been solved by the new wicked edge designs. But to be honest for something I paid for thinking it was a once off purchase I was not expecting to have to return and buy it again.

I am also looking at a few designs where I can use full sized stones still toying with what I want to make no doubt a few prototypes are out there. Torn between making the ultimate sharpening jig and something that does the job that's functional quick and easy to use and cost effective.

throw off a photo or video of these ticks- if it's my fault- I'll send new ones ...

 

[Man'ko]

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1.../AF1QipOUSr0dKVh76yIH8n-FOGE4zEWU5H7kBwhBdPex

 

[Man'ko]

 

[Gritomatic]

Just to confirm the best centring the Central Y-Shaped Clamp for Hapstone R2

All rounder. I can see how two Universal Angled Clamps for Hapstone R2 (Pair)basically give you the versatility of a Central Y clamp or two clamps spread further apart for a larger knife.

I assume a pair of whole milled clamps will work better than one piece even with two jacking screws to adjust for FFG and distal taper. Maybe the single slotted from KakBritva will do the job in a single piece. Less fiddling I guess. The milling on the KakBritva with non flat surface inside face the clamps look really good.

From somebody that has only used single clamps like the wicked edge, do you get much of an issue with multiple clamps and clamp alignment along the blade, I assume thinner blades with flex like a fillet knife you might notice it like clamping a bowie knife its going to straighten the clamps out, clamping a thin laser kitchen knife any alignment issues might assert forces where you dont want them.

Even for short knives, 2x R2 Universal Angled Clamps dramatically exceed R2 Central Y-Shaped Clamp in versatility.
1) Central clamp has 2 tightening screws and a good flat spring that lets jaws pitch and roll for maximizing the contact spot. However, the physical capability of the spring is limited, and there is only one spacer. 2x Angled Clamps are fully independent. When clamping FFG Distal Taper, either clamp has to do only 50% of the job. It's easier to make more reliable and precise clamping with uniform angles using 2x clamps.
2) Using spacers, 2x Univeral Clamps can be set differently even in "inward" configuration. One clamp is primary, another clamp is support.
3) When clamps stop dictating how you should position the blade, you think more about sweet spot, ultra acute angles, and other important things.

Unless your sharpener is dedicated to short knives only, I recommend designing a multi clamp solution. Otherwise, you will advise your customers to glue something rigid to a fillet knife before sharpening sessions.

 

[Gritomatic]

For those who don't know who is Man'ko.
Bogdan Manko is an individual sharpening system inventor from Ukraine. He has spent years to research and develop such features as:

• high-precision sharpeners with the blade above abrasive
• always-horizontal abrasive holder
• rigid pantograph arms
  
• zero-gravity guide rod

As you have noticed, he does not speak English. I will try to explain here what he tried to say.
His clamp design is similar to KME split piece jaws. The biggest difference is small spacers in the center of both jaws. These spacers let align the blade to have uniform angles on both sides, even if the factory grind is uneven. The spacers also give an extra contact point for distal taper blades. With all due respect to Bogdan, I think this design is good only for "blade above abrasive" class sharpeners where magnets are primary, and the secondary clamp does not need versatility. But for traditional sharpeners, these clamps are not strong enough and not deep enough to secure many blade shapes, especially distal taper.

 

[MashMaster]

Here it is.

Yes I understood there is a low angle adaptor, what I did not articulate clearly is the clamp is very good but to clamp low angles you need the additional low angle adaptor.

 

[MashMaster]

For those who don't know who is Man'ko.
Bogdan Manko is an individual sharpening system inventor from Ukraine. He has spent years to research and develop such features as:

• high-precision sharpeners with the blade above abrasive
• always-horizontal abrasive holder
• rigid pantograph arms
  
• zero-gravity guide rod

As you have noticed, he does not speak English. I will try to explain here what he tried to say.
His clamp design is similar to KME split piece jaws. The biggest difference is small spacers in the center of both jaws. These spacers let align the blade to have uniform angles on both sides, even if the factory grind is uneven. The spacers also give an extra contact point for distal taper blades. With all due respect to Bogdan, I think this design is good only for "blade above abrasive" class sharpeners where magnets are primary, and the secondary clamp does not need versatility. But for traditional sharpeners, these clamps are not strong enough and not deep enough to secure many blade shapes, especially distal taper.

Agree the small grub screws let centre the knife or make adjustments to centre and take way the wiggle but that comes are cost of reduced contact area as it is the grub screws that are making contact.

 

[000Robert]

Yes I understood there is a low angle adaptor, what I did not articulate clearly is the clamp is very good but to clamp low angles you need the additional low angle adaptor.

Or you can use the Tormek SVM-00 small knife jig. I reprofiled a little paring knife last night to 13dps using the Tormek in my WE130. I could have went much lower, had I needed to.
It's only hard to get real acute edges with the LAA on small blades. But the Tormek picks up the slack.

 

[MashMaster]

Or you can use the Tormek SVM-00 small knife jig. I reprofiled a little paring knife last night to 13dps using the Tormek in my WE130. I could have went much lower, had I needed to.
It's only hard to get real acute edges with the LAA on small blades. But the Tormek picks up the slack.

View attachment 1508736

A lot of my kitchen knifes mostly Japanese are down around 13 to 10 dps. Clamping the the handle symmetrically is not an easy task, dont get me wrong I can see situations where handle clamping is the way to go. Same as situations where magnet to the blade is also a good solution

 

[000Robert]

A lot of my kitchen knifes mostly Japanese are down around 13 to 10 dps. Clamping the the handle symmetrically is not an easy task, dont get me wrong I can see situations where handle clamping is the way to go. Same as situations where magnet to the blade is also a good solution

Never sharpened a Japanese kitchen knife. But the higher your knife edge is above the LAA, the more acute your angles can be. Of course, the higher you go the longer guide rods you need also. Right now the 12" guide rods will handle everything I need to sharpen. I'm going to get the 15" guide rods to have in case I need them later on.

 

[MashMaster]

Never sharpened a Japanese kitchen knife. But the higher your knife edge is above the LAA, the more acute your angles can be. Of course, the higher you go the longer guide rods you need also. Right now the 12" guide rods will handle everything I need to sharpen. I'm going to get the 15" guide rods to have in case I need them later on.

Even my SWIBO (victorinox although SWIBO are hardened a couple rockwell harder than their victorinox brothers and sisters0 I still take take to 13dps they can be smooth steeled or stropped, harder knives stropped only.

 

[000Robert]

Even my SWIBO (victorinox although SWIBO are hardened a couple rockwell harder than their victorinox brothers and sisters0 I still take take to 13dps they can be smooth steeled or stropped, harder knives stropped only.

Some guys add an extra vise block under the bottom of the existing vise between it and the base to raise it up a few inches to get more acute angles. But I haven't needed to yet. I may do it in the future. Some guys also put 2 or 3 Wicked Edge vises inline for sharpening long knives and swords. You can do a lot of things with the WE. Just depends on what you need.

 

[Bluemantra]

Just as an update to this. I have the R2 module and purchased the Central Y shaped clamp and after some use I’m starting to think it wasn’t the best choice for my application. I mostly sharpen folders 4” or less. What I notice is no matter what I do there is always some flex with the system when sharpening. Even when barely using any pressure there is some flex. How much of an impact will this have on sharpening consistency? My thought was I should have gone for the two universal spring clamps, however, I’m now wondering if all the spring based clamps have some degree of flex? I’m now looking at getting the two small side whole milled clamps for the Hapstone as these appear to have no risk of flex and would be the sturdiest option. The Central Y clamp is convenient for centering, however.