What's with the sniveling about CRK's S30V hardness?

T

termiteslayer

Joined
Dec 18, 2009
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So, I've scanned many different parts of this forum and there seem to be a lot of people unhappy with the softness of CRK's S30V.
Is it less brittle the way Chris does it?
Easier to sharpen?
Would any of you CRK blade owners prefer your S30V to be harder?
I'm fairly new to quality blades and blade steels and I really can't find anything to complain about with the CRK blades that I have... I'm actually quite pleased with what I have purchased and used.
Any insights would be appreciated.
Thanks.
 
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it is softer on crk's than most other maker's knives.

i dont particularly care, and have never noticed a difference.
 
I have seen S30V chip on other brands I have owned in the past, I have yet to see that on one of the CRKs that I own. Keeping the HRC down gives the steel a malleability or toughness that is very useful in real world applications. I find the CRK heat treat to be a superior balance between toughness, edge holding ability and sharpen-ability.
 
this is my opinion and nothing more, please do not flame me for this!!!
the thing I have against CRK's S30V is the fact that not hardening S30V to 60+RC really defeats the purpose of even using it as a blade steel. Many other steels can hold an edge longer than S30V at low hardness and are much cheaper so it really is useless to use S30V when other steels would be cheaper and more effective.
just my .02$ CRK's blades are top notch but this is one thing I has against them.
 
The word "sniveling" in your thread title is flamebait (and sort of offensive) but heck with it, I'll play... I don't consider it "sniveling" when you can take a knife from a competing manufacturer (with the same bladesteel) and touch it up to hair popping sharpness on the Sharpmaker, and attempt to do the same thing with a Seb only to find yourself struggling with a nasty wire edge that's rolled to one side. Oh, you can "learn" CRK's S30V. I have. I can get my Micarta 21 acceptably sharp and maintain the edge now that I have some insight. The last one hundred strokes on the white stones have to be made with such light pressure, it's like a feather brushing up against a nun's fart. I wouldn't extend that level of attention to maintaining an edge if I didn't love the knife. Too much trouble, considering I can take a platsic handled Native that I paid thirty bucks for and get it shaving sharp while watching a half inning of baseball, paying scant attention to the stones.

So I take mild offense to your suggestion that there's "sniveling" in the forums concerning CRK going soft on S30V. And believe you me, there's heck to be paid if you say ANYTHING even remotely negative about CRK products. It's like taking a swig from a Mountain Dew bottle in a Coca Cola boardroom around here. Some subjects are better left untouched. CRK softness is one of them. I'll get flamed for these comments. Stick around. Some of the people around here live for this sort of thing.
 
"The word "sniveling" in your thread title is flamebait (and sort of offensive)"

Sorry if I was offensive, it honestly wasn't my intent. I'll leave it in the title unless enough people think it's rude and should be removed. Bluntness is one of my character defects, or assets... depends on the skin thickness of those that I'm dealing with.
I've just seen a lot of rather aggressive critiques (better?) of the CRK hardness in other areas of this forum.
Perhaps it's better to keep this topic here in the Chris Reeve section where it has a better chance of being defended.
In all honesty I wasn't trying to 'troll', as they say. I was just wondering if any CRK owners wish their blades were harder, and why.
 
I have not personally experienced a dull edge or one with a rolled edge. On that note it is pretty difficult to sharpen the entire edge of the blade do to the changing angle of the edge. I had previously asked about sharpening and was provided with a great explanation on how to sharpen correctly.

I can get my Spyderco Tenacious hair popping in 10min and I can get the Seb to shave some hair in 20-30min. Takes more patience and precision to sharpen the seb imo. Of course skill and milage will vary!

Im ready for an Insigno for the ease of sharpening a more "wharncliff like" blade shape.
 
Not suggesting you're trolling. You just basically started a topic with a flamebait title, that's all. It's like you were inviting people (people that have already been flamed enough) to comment on your topic and even before they hit the reply button, they are "sniveling". There's a diff between trolling and posting flamebait. You posted a legit question in your post, but your title was flamebait. Cheers.
 
I'll try to consider my words more carefully in the future.
The desire to stir up a stink pile is not within me.
 
I too have read many posts on the CRK S30V steel. In the end to make a long story short. Mr. Reeve developed the S30V steel and knows far more about it that any of us amatures ever will. I use and carry my umnumzaan heavily. I have even cut tar paper and shingles with it, so its used, believe me. It was so dull, that it would not cut through paper on a marble cutting board.......So to me, this is dull and I am sure most of you will agree.........After sharpening it on the sharpmaker with 60 strokes total, I could lay the knife on my forearm and let the knife slide down it ( using Only the weight of the knife ) and the hair popped off my arm like it was not attached and was falling off. I find it amazing the some people state it takes hundreds of swipes per side on a sharpmaker to get an edge on CRK S30V. I have been sharpening knives on ceramic rods since I as about 10 years old, so maybe I just have a knack for it in 27 years of using them. I have never had a wire edge on it, no chipping, no failure of any kind. I have had failures with other steels, 1095, BG-42 to name a few I can think of. Knowing Chris, he has tested S30V from 50RC to 70RC and has found the current RC to bring out the best qualities in the steel. My Zaan is a heavily used EDC, not a safe queen and I feel I can freely comment on its durability and ease of sharpening from my personal experience. I am more than happy with CRK S30V Steel as are many others !!!
 
Allow me to snivel. It would appear that edge retention was not the primary criteria when S30v at 58 to 59 haradness was selected to replace the BG-42 blades. The lower hardness, with it's resultant resistance to chipping but with an increased propensity for edge rolling, must be more in keeping with the manufacturer's priorities. The softer Rc obviously helps reduce the possibility of edge chipping and allows the knife to remain serviceable longer when it is subjected to excessive stresses or when maintenance (sharpening) is deferred. The lower hardness makes hand sharpening less laborious and more quickly gratifying. A lower hardness MAY reduce the frequency of knives being returned by purchasers concerned with blade chipping. A lower hardness permits an increase in the useful life of production equipment and a decrease in consuming other manufacturing resources. This can allow these assets to be devoted to other aspects of production. These reasons and others, MAY have been more important considerations when selecting S30v and running it at the chosen hardness. I too have experienced INITIAL micro chipping when sharpening a new Sebenza. I have also noticed a greater frequency of touch-ups being required to maintain a high level of sharpness, due to edge rolling and blunting, as compared to other S30v EDC knives honed to the same edge angle and finish. One of my small Sebenza is still my favorite EDC but I would like a harder blade steel. OldDude1
 
I think peppercorn hit the nail on the head. The malleability of not hardening to the limit combined with the convexed edge of the Sebenza (and all CRK blades) makes for a durable edge. In my experience, all edges are subject to chipping, and my Seb has done as well or better at resisting chipping over the course of nine years of edc (no chipping whatsoever). YMMV.

Professor.
 
peppercorn said:
I have seen S30V chip on other brands I have owned in the past, I have yet to see that on one of the CRKs that I own. Keeping the HRC down gives the steel a malleability or toughness that is very useful in real world applications. I find the CRK heat treat to be a superior balance between toughness, edge holding ability and sharpen-ability.
Click to expand...

+1.

IIRC there are some CATRA tests with S30V at 58 and BG-42 at 61 showing superior edge retention for S30V.

I don't be believe it's a "waste" to have S30V at 58-59 rc. (Because it is 58-59 RC). You get a large increase in toughness with a decent increase in edge retention.

I have never noticed any sharpening issues with CRK knives. Ever. At all. No burrs, no wire edges, nothing.

Maybe I know how to sharpen? :)
 
S30V is my preferred steel compared to almost every one I've ever tried. (haven't used my CPM-M4 that much yet.) I've tried it from several manufacturers.

Spyderco= a little too soft (but 2nd in preference)
Benchmade= a little too hard
Strider= definitely too hard
CRK= perfect. absolutely perfect.

It really seems to me that S30V acts like S30V regardless. It cuts very well even when "dull" by my standards. Like others have said, when you get to the "fine" stones as long as you do 100 VERY light strokes your gonna be stoked with the outcome!
 
archieblue said:
S30V is my preferred steel compared to almost every one I've ever tried. (haven't used my CPM-M4 that much yet.) I've tried it from several manufacturers.

Spyderco= a little too soft (but 2nd in preference)
Benchmade= a little too hard
Strider= definitely too hard
CRK= perfect. absolutely perfect.

It really seems to me that S30V acts like S30V regardless. It cuts very well even when "dull" by my standards. Like others have said, when you get to the "fine" stones as long as you do 100 VERY light strokes your gonna be stoked with the outcome!
Click to expand...

I find that an odd comparison because Striders is normally left "soft" (57-58 IIRC) and Spyderco's are normally right around 60-61. Someone did a rockwell test on a Military, but I can't find the thread.
 
'Tis human nature to complain...As long as you are comfortable with this fact, then you should never have a problem..Until your turn in the complaint rotation comes up :D


Bill
 
Josh K said:
I find that an odd comparison because Striders is normally left "soft" (57-58 IIRC) and Spyderco's are normally right around 60-61. Someone did a rockwell test on a Military, but I can't find the thread.
Click to expand...

I recall seeing 59-60 for the Military, but regardless it is harder than CRK. I got nothing to back that up...I just recall seeing it in print somewhere.

From the Strider FAQ:
Paul Bos performs a UNIQUE to Strider heat treat on all Strider Knives.
The hardness for S30V is 59.5/60RC
Click to expand...

Bos is no longer doing the heat treat for Strider, but I understand that they are using the exact same process and would expect the hardness resulting to be the same also (at least that is what they aim to do).

Some of these observations/opinions being posted may have a little to do with the edge bevel angle? I find that a blade of S30V tends to act differently at different angles (go figure).
 
unit said:
I recall seeing 59-60 for the Military, but regardless it is harder than CRK. I got nothing to back that up...I just recall seeing it in print somewhere.

From the Strider FAQ:


Bos is no longer doing the heat treat for Strider, but I understand that they are using the exact same process and would expect the hardness resulting to be the same also (at least that is what they aim to do).

Some of these observations/opinions being posted may have a little to do with the edge bevel angle? I find that a blade of S30V tends to act differently at different angles (go figure).
Click to expand...

Right, that's still not "hard" for the steel. Hard would be 63RC+.
 
Harry Callahan said:
... a nun's fart. ... taking a swig from a Mountain Dew bottle in a Coca Cola boardroom ...I'll get flamed for these comments.....
Click to expand...

Harry, regardless of your opinions - that's funny!

IMHO, Chris Reeve makes working knives. Working knives don't necessarily have to maintain a "shaving razor" edge, but do need to maintain a "working edge" for as long as possible, as well as be fairly easy to sharpen, and and easy to clean. On these last three items, I think the general consensus would be that CR Knives get a :thumbup: from just about everyone. If high hardness were the primary product criteria for him, then I think Mr. Reeve would switch to ZDP-189 (for example) pretty quickly.
 
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