Which do you think is the worst steel ever?

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If you think that 420HC is good, then the 4110, 4116, 4034 and other .5% carbon (X50/5Cr) can't be see bad as cutlery steels. The heat treatment generally decides the final outcome.

Despite things like Zknives and other site usually call these stuff 420 equivalent. The real SAE 420 steel spec has only 0.15% carbon, which is way lower in hardness than the .5% stainless.

Victorinox uses 4110 at low hardness, yet some people here sworn by it quality, but for some reason not fine with other steels for merely their names.
 
Deino said:
If you think that 420HC is good, then the 4110, 4116, 4034 and other .5% carbon (X50/5Cr) can't be see bad as cutlery steels. The heat treatment generally decides the final outcome.
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While you are right overall, the carbon content alone does not make those alloys equal in all performance metrics. For example, although they share similar levels of wear resistance, 420HC is significantly tougher than 4116. In fact, it is among the tougher stainless alloys according to Larrin’s research, roughly in the same ballpark as 14C28N and AEB-L. Whereas 4116 is on the weak side, listed as having a slightly lower toughness than S110V.


See this chart by Larrin, one of the most well-regarded metallurgists out there. 4116 is listed at the top, 420HC is four rows down.

DD4E577E-B94D-4F8F-85B3-B56A19E72C50.jpeg

Source article:
knifesteelnerds.com

Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist - Toughness, Edge Retention, and Corrosion Resistance - Knife Steel Nerds

Steel Metallurgist Larrin Thomas uses tests of knife steels to rate the steels and explains the factors that control performance.
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com

A thread discussing the subject:

420hc Toughness

Hey all – recently I posted a thread in the general section asking how tuff 420hc is in general. That thread got shut down (I believe because some people were giving somebody who posted a generic steel chart a hard time) shortly after the thread was started. Regardless I would like to continue...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
 
Enzo’s Woodshop said:
While you are right overall, the carbon content alone does not make those alloys equal in all performance metrics. For example, although they share similar levels of wear resistance, 420HC is significantly tougher than 4116. In fact, it is among the tougher stainless alloys according to Larrin’s research, roughly in the same ballpark as 14C28N and AEB-L. Whereas 4116 is on the weak side, listed as having a slightly lower toughness than S110V.


See this chart by Larrin, one of the most well-regarded metallurgists out there. 4116 is listed at the top, 420HC is four rows down.

View attachment 2124233

Source article:
knifesteelnerds.com

Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist - Toughness, Edge Retention, and Corrosion Resistance - Knife Steel Nerds

Steel Metallurgist Larrin Thomas uses tests of knife steels to rate the steels and explains the factors that control performance.
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com

A thread discussing the subject:

420hc Toughness

Hey all – recently I posted a thread in the general section asking how tuff 420hc is in general. That thread got shut down (I believe because some people were giving somebody who posted a generic steel chart a hard time) shortly after the thread was started. Regardless I would like to continue...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
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I respect and use Larrin's site often, but I disagree with him on the 1.4116. He has 1 sample and doesn't cite its origin and heat treatment unlike most of the other example he has. If that one sample got the better property of the steel, then it would have a different views from people.

It is not that bad, there are 4116 like the Danish Vangedal or some Spanish chopper under the name of CroVa, which some people used to chop woods without issue. Many european kitchen blades, which needs toughness for edge stability, also used 4116. Because Larrin has more knowledge, doesn't mean I can't question his work. If he can reproduce his test for the 4116 with more description, I will absolutely change my position.
 
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I’ve used nearly all of them and they all work, assuming a reasonable heat treatment, as in they didn’t forget to harden it. Also FWIW, many steels have aluminum in them. I’d say nearly all but there is a lot of steel still made using older methods.
 
y53p said:
Lol love how in the second video Lynn is like “New York banning plastic knives to avoid them from being undetected by metal detector is stupid BUT these knives are great for stabbing and puncturing through ribcages, so check them out”.
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I'm very sure that banning plastic knives will save NY from their epidemic crime waves ! :rolleyes:
 
yepimonfire said:
Gerber 7cr17mov. Theoretically, 7cr17mov shouldn't be terrible but Gerber heat treats it so soft the edge will literally dull test cutting paper. That's the main problem with companies selling knives in less than 8cr13mov/AUS 8, nobody who actually knows anything about knives actually buys anything lower end than that so the companies using it have no incentive to do anything other than grind out a knife-shaped object and make it look pretty. I'd love to see one Rockwell tested, I'd be surprised if it was even 50HRC and that's being generous.
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I doubt very much that Gerber heat treats their knives made in China with a Chinese steel. I am sure it is heat treated in China by whoever the factory uses.
But Gerber is and should be held responsible for all aspects since their brand label goes on the final product.
 
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luethge said:
8crmov13 or whatever it’s called. Has to be sharpened after cutting one box, you can sharpen it with a denim pant leg though.
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8Cr13Mov is definitely not good but a burnt factory edge often makes it seem worse than it is. At least once you are down to fresh steel, it's far from the worst. The biggest issues with 8Cr13Mov are the large performance gap between it and better budget steels like 9Cr18Mov or 10Cr15CoMov, and the fact that companies like Kershaw and Spyderco keep insisting on using it at prices where knives in better budget steels have become more widely available.

7Cr17Mov is a theoretical step down from 8Cr13 on edge retention but the real-world difference usually comes down to heat treatment. (It usually does not get a good heat treatment.) Analogous to 440A, at least it gets decent corrosion resistance.

5Cr15 is a step down from there. This is where things really start to suck. CRKT and others have made extensive use of 5Cr15 in the past. Currently, the easiest place to encounter this steel is in the Crescent Tool EDC knives at Home Depot. (This steel also shows up in a lot of counterfeit or off-brand knives claiming to be made of better stuff.)

Then there is 3Cr13... This steel is often used to make liners or the bodies of steel frame locks. Unfortunately, it is also used to make blades for very cheap knives. At least a few years ago, this was the default steel for Walmart's Ozark Trail line. 🤦‍♂️
 
vwb563 said:
Worst steel ever? What ever the steel was in the Pakistani lock back knife (Buck 110 clone) that I owned back in the early 80”s when I was in high school. It was so soft you could literally bend the blade to 90 degrees and back straight and it would not snap.
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Amen, few people today know the pain of trying to sharpen the 80's Pakistani boot knife, you know the one that the wooden handle that wiggled like a loose tooth and had the shiny mystery metal that looked like it was made from recycled toasters. It will really make you appreciate 420HC 😂
 
Chronovore said:
5Cr15 ... CRKT
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And yet would you believe that the first fixed blade I carried daily that really got me into knives was a Minimalist in said underwhelming alloy. It got really sharp one day when I had a guy at a farmer's market in New Brunswick sharpen it for me, but I already knew it would refuse to stay that way if I used it. In fact I just carried it and didn't use it any more for that reason (until I learned to sharpen).
 
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