Which Knife Brands have you seen fall out of favour?

For me, it's been CRKT. Years ago they were offering decent budget knives at the right price and quality. Then they started raising prices and lowering quality. Moving production to China did not help any, either. For many of us, the China move implied that we were getting even less for our hard earned cash.

They had a good thing with their M16 series but, now, there are so many variations on the series It's hard to tell what you are getting for your money.

I will admit, going to Sandvik steel on some models was a nice touch but, it was too little, too late. The sad thing is they have so much potential.
 
I don't know how relevant HTM is/was, but it seems that they have gone kerplunk.
 
My thought on the Hinderer was when you resell, the first question is "is it centered?". We'll, for now, I've got it where it should hold for a bit. Next question, "does it flip?", kind of, as long as it's a heavy blade, 3" and wharncliff, most often not without wrist. It's always bubble gum and bailing wire to get them back together then hope it stays center till eventually it drags to one side. Some were good, some were not so good. Oh, my favorite, how many tools to take apart your knife and custom pivot tool. Yes, use a penny and flat head screw driver, then see how marred up the screw and pivot will end up, no thanks. Customer service is there, not much communication so I don't know how good it really is. Had one interaction with them, no notification that they had the knife or it was done, just sent it out and it showed up on my door step one day.

CRK, yes, no new designs other than scales, that's usually the first observation. But you don't or shouldn't get the question is it centered and of course it does not flip, it's a CRK. Good to great resell. You buy one used, you should have confidence if you have issues, they'll take care of you. Great customer service. On my second customer service experience, first one my fault, second one bevel grind issue. Top communication.

Benchmade, use to be usually blade favors one side, good customer service, never had any issues. Resell is usually pretty good. Recent purchase, centering was good. Still on the fence. They haven't given up.

ZT great flipper, lots bearing knifes, big, giant tactical cool knives, good resell, never dealt with customer service, nothing under 3.5" (well, one, 0909). Not a fan of the super steels any more, just my opinion but last I knew they had a mix of mid range and super steels.
 
Cipriano said:
So many of the great German brands have become garbage. Puma, Kissing Krane, Hen & Rooster, etc.

It's painful to see the beautiful Kissing Krane shield on horrible Chinese made folders.
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I believe it's mostly because many don't know what is made in China and what's made in Germany any more. For example, the Puma SGB line is in 440A and they say it is German steel and assembled in China. Not convinced that is the case, so I stay away from them even though I own one.

Hen & Rooster has a great name. But I honestly think they are just another China made Frost line. I have a small stockman which is an okay knife. They are priced much like the Case line and I'm a lot more comfortable with Case as at least I know where it' made for sure.

For the most part, I stay away from German brands now. Someone needs to convince me that I'm not just buying Chinese and paying for "German".
 
saber cat,

I have to agree about CRKT.

I remember back around 20 years ago, I handled my first CRKT, a large Jim Hammond-designed Mirage. It was the first good quality 'made in Taiwan' production knife that I'd ever handled. I was also surprised at the inexpensive price. I thought there must be a catch. Then I bought several other CRKT knives, even including a special silver KISS knife made in Japan with an upswept blade.

Were they perfect? No. And some designs were made better than others. But the quality for the price was amazing. If I'm not mistaken, CRKT was the first American-based company that got the ball rolling for quality production knife manufacturing in Taiwan, at least internationally. It opened the door for Spyderco, CS, and other brands to have some of their products produced in Taiwan and take the quality to a whole different level.

I haven't bought a CRKT since maybe 2000 or so. Even so, I was disappointed when I heard they moved production from Taiwan to China. I'm sure they're still doing fine as far as numbers go, but even if I'm no longer into their product line, I'd like for CRKT to live up to their potential (which I think is considerable).

*Edit: Oops, I forgot to hit the 'reply' button to sabre cat's post.*

Jim
 
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22-rimfire said:
I believe it's mostly because many don't know what is made in China and what's made in Germany any more. For example, the Puma SGB line is in 440A and they say it is German steel and assembled in China. Not convinced that is the case, so I stay away from them even though I own one.

Hen & Rooster has a great name. But I honestly think they are just another China made Frost line. I have a small stockman which is an okay knife. They are priced much like the Case line and I'm a lot more comfortable with Case as at least I know where it' made for sure.

For the most part, I stay away from German brands now. Someone needs to convince me that I'm not just buying Chinese and paying for "German".
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What about Böker? I used to love them, but the last couple of knives I received from them (for the last few years) have been QC nightmares. They keep outsourcing more and more to china too, it seems. And the knife I got from their Argentina factory was ground like an abstract artwork.
 
A lot of production knife companies are having a bad time trying to adjust to the influx of high quality Chinese knives, most have been brought up here. Companies that had a lot of respect just have not gotten it, and if they're not simply resting on their laurels are not making the necessary adjustments to stay competitive. CRKT, Schrade, Boker, Buck, Gerber the list goes on - and even ones that remain popular for whatever reason have fallen out of favor with those more savvy to the lack of quality. Benchmade for instance is the poster child for mediocre quality at champagne costs. Their business model is don't worry about the QC, most people won't notice or deal with it. Those who do? Ship it to us and we might take care of it.

There's also been the controversies of makers, from Quartermaster to Strider - which has been touched on countless times here. However these controversies never really did much to damage the reputation of the makers enough to hurt their bottom end. And I just can't call a maker being a jerk a controversy TBH. Not telling the full truth or obfuscating fact is one thing, but outright lying is another.

One maker that totally blew it was Tim Britton. This has been discussed here and elsewhere, but as a buyer I'd be totally pissed paying $600+ for a custom that turned out to be a so-so Chinese production knife.

When dealing with the changing market in the higher end, IMHO the ones I see that fell the hardest were the midtech/custom types who were commanding custom prices just a couple of years ago. They had carved out a niche of not quite custom, not quite production for prices that would get you a full-on custom these days. Reate and WE put a quick stop to this range of knives. We simply no longer tolerate flat scales and mediocre action for $600.

One brand that was a darling of the community just 3-4 years ago was Brous Blades. Before the Chinese knives saturated the market, young Jason was making some crazy new designs and commanding equally crazy-high prices. Back when midtech was the buzzword I suppose. He also had quite the following, just check YT reviews from a few years back. But $500-600 for essentially a production knife, with questionable build quality, ergonomics and functionality his stock fell quickly. I'd hate to be a reseller stuck with a $550 knife nobody wants any longer. Jason has changed his business model, and has moved rapidly downscale. I've owned a few Brous Blades, and only one was even slightly competitive with a Reate, WE or even Kizer. It's a shame, I like Jason and hope he can adjust, but he seems to just keep ticking people off. My Reloader is the worst knife I've ever handled. Gorgeous, and simply dreadful.

Ferrum Forge still does ok, but I'm not sure the community is as enamored with them as they were just a couple of years ago. The build quality is still very good, but their customer service could use some fine tuning. But you just don't hear about them the way you used to. They seem fine with where they're at, so more power to them.

In the old guard, I don't think Emerson or Hinderer are what they used to be. Hinderer still tries, but he's jumped the shark with the weird fidget gear scales and clips. How did a knife for a first responder turn into a toy for people with attention deficit disorder? I've always thought ZT built the best Hinderers, still do. So embarrassing. They still make some classics, no doubt. But the cost compared to what's available, and the lack of desire to move to bearings when putting out Halloween specials is confusing at best.

It's been a really exciting 3-4 years, we've seen the top tier makers vanish or recede as new makers come forward, with CNC machines operating literally out of their garage.
 
Gerber and Kershaw are no where as good as 10 years ago.
RR and Schrade have gotten way better.
Buck 110 still great but their other knifes not so good especially their China Buck Stockmans!
 
tltt said:
Al Mar - Not so much out of favor, but they just don't release enough knives or have a web presence. Would love to see a retro line.
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Not to be snarky, but isn't their entire product line retro? When was their last original design released? About 2000? Since then they've had the Ultralights & Heavy Duties with different steels, but those are just reworkings. I do like them, but not because they have new & exciting designs.
I'm guessing that I missed a knife that was released since 2000, but as an overall comment on their product line I'll stick with this.

Lodd said:
What about Böker? I used to love them, but the last couple of knives I received from them (for the last few years) have been QC nightmares. They keep outsourcing more and more to china too, it seems. And the knife I got from their Argentina factory was ground like an abstract artwork.
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They have different lines made in different places, which doesn't keep the lesser lines from dragging down their name.
I have two from the Boker Tree Classic line - the ones in Bog Oak & Grenadill covers. The quality was quite good, between GEC & Case. They used 440C instead of their usual Solingen steel, which I appreciate.
I also have a knife from the Boker Plus line, Plus meaning "will not pay to have good QC from China, but will charge you anyways". Well this specific one was made in China. I've seen poor reviews of the Magnum line too.
 
To Ourorbros -

Well it depends on how you look at it. The kitchen line, the autos, Nomad, etc.... are all newish, but still 10 - 15 years old. By retro, I meant the 80's, 90's designs back from when Al Mar and family were the owners. It would cost a bit, but I think some of those designs, updated and brought back could be interesting. I know his daughter was thinking of it a few years ago, but haven't heard anything.
 
Yonose said:
Just a note on Buck; they have started making a few excellent folders in s30v, s35v, and even s110v if I’m not mistaken. The Unbiquitous bos flame signature still carries a certain pride of ownership, even to collectors like myself who ordinarily don’t buy s30v anymore. Bucks’ open season pro line, especially the folder and 4.5” skinner/camp knife combine old school design with modern steel. The older buck 119’s and 120’s (pre 1981) definitely used a steel that is much higher quality than what came after.
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They have a few limited production models in S-90-V but not S-110-V. 1 & 3 have custom S-110-V blades. 2 & 4 are factory S-90-V knives.60E703C6-75CD-4C75-B121-22BDB26F4277.jpeg
 
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I discovered one-handed knives in the age of Spyderco and CRK, which I think will never lose their place in the history books. Then came along Emerson, Hinderer and Strider. Humblebrag: I never understood these latter knives. Compared to the old standbys, they weren't well made, and they were expensive! But people would argue with me, asserting their quality, saying these names with thundering authority like they were important historical figures, throwing in a bunch of bluster about "tactical" and "servicemen" and "first responders". As a first responder myself back then, I couldn't imagine spending $500 on a knife that was less functional than my favored $100 Benchmade at the time — and yet I was supposed to admire Hinderer for "prioritizing first responders" or something. I also remember a guy using a Leatherman screwdriver to release the lock on his Emerson, apparently the stickiest liner lock ever made, just as he mocked my Spyderco Police for not being made by a famous tactical designer.

Twenty years later, I went with a friend to NYCKS. He caught the knife bug from me a few years ago, and now he has a great collection of Spyderco, CRK, ZT, and some others. We handled a bunch of Striders and Hinderers, and he was just dumbfounded as to their poor quality (not just for the price!) and why anyone would buy them. Short of him buying into the lifestyle stories that back up those brands, I didn't have an answer for him.

It's possible that knives fall into a few categories, two of those being:
  • Knives made by companies dedicated to consistent quality and customer service
  • Knives made (or branded) by companies with lifestyle stories
I don't have any data to back up a claim that certain brands are "falling out of favor", but my prediction is that knives strictly in the latter category will be forgotten sooner. The demand will evaporate once their "lifestyle stories" either become irrelevant or are uncovered by the winds of time as shallow ploys. From my perspective, those would include Emerson, Hinderer, Strider, Triple Aught Design, Prometheus Design Werx, Giant Mouse, and many other currently pricey brands.

In the long run, the brands and makers who either "did it first" or "did it best", with consistency, character, and professionalism, will never fall out of favor.
 
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tltt said:
To Ourorbros -

Well it depends on how you look at it. The kitchen line, the autos, Nomad, etc.... are all newish, but still 10 - 15 years old. By retro, I meant the 80's, 90's designs back from when Al Mar and family were the owners. It would cost a bit, but I think some of those designs, updated and brought back could be interesting. I know his daughter was thinking of it a few years ago, but haven't heard anything.
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Well Nemesis started a line of Al Mar designed knives. Supposedly a family member found a stack of design drawings by Al Mar. Nemesis is updating them & releasing them. I'm actually interested in the first one, but I don't love metal handle knives.
 
James Y said:
saber cat,

I have to agree about CRKT.

I remember back around 20 years ago, I handled my first CRKT, a large Jim Hammond-designed Mirage. It was the first good quality 'made in Taiwan' production knife that I'd ever handled. I was also surprised at the inexpensive price. I thought there must be a catch. Then I bought several other CRKT knives, even including a special silver KISS knife made in Japan with an upswept blade.

Were they perfect? No. And some designs were made better than others. But the quality for the price was amazing. If I'm not mistaken, CRKT was the first American-based company that got the ball rolling for quality production knife manufacturing in Taiwan, at least internationally. It opened the door for Spyderco, CS, and other brands to have some of their products produced in Taiwan and take the quality to a whole different level.

I haven't bought a CRKT since maybe 2000 or so. Even so, I was disappointed when I heard they moved production from Taiwan to China. I'm sure they're still doing fine as far as numbers go, but even if I'm no longer into their product line, I'd like for CRKT to live up to their potential (which I think is considerable).

*Edit: Oops, I forgot to hit the 'reply' button to sabre cat's post.*

Jim
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I don't think everything is made in China. They might still make some in Taiwan. I hope so.

IMHO, what sets CRKT apart is their willingness to work with lots of designers so you end up with tons of designs to choose from. They could become a good company again if they would just up their game a little bit and offer better blade steel. Or, at least improve their heat treatment. Just changing HT would help, immensely.
 
sabre cat said:
I don't think everything is made in China. They might still make some in Taiwan. I hope so.

IMHO, what sets CRKT apart is their willingness to work with lots of designers so you end up with tons of designs to choose from. They could become a good company again if they would just up their game a little bit and offer better blade steel. Or, at least improve their heat treatment. Just changing HT would help, immensely.
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My Crossbones is made in Taiwan and is quite the nice little knife
 
marcinek said:
How do you mean? :confused: They are kinda everywhere.
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I mean on store shelves in my area, They used to always have a predominant spot on the shelf, or behind the counter under glass, but a couple times over the past years I find myself saying "And here is the gerber section" less, and saying "Oh wow a Gerber I havent seen one of these in a while" more. It just seems like stores in my area dont carry them as much as they used to.
 
Shifti said:
I mean on store shelves in my area, They used to always have a predominant spot on the shelf, or behind the counter under glass, but a couple times over the past years I find myself saying "And here is the gerber section" less, and saying "Oh wow a Gerber I havent seen one of these in a while" more. It just seems like stores in my area dont carry them as much as they used to.
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I wish that were the case here, my local Cabelas, Bass Pro, Dicks heck even Menards and Lowes are over flowing with them. I think my Walmart might have less of a selection than they used to.
 
Strider has fallen out of favor with this forum specifically. It’s not a general issue. As for Hinderer, that’s easily explained by Rick flooding the market with knives. If you feel like you “got burned” because you bought from private sellers and didn’t pay attention to regular updates that Hinderer was putting, then that’s a slip up on the part of the purchaser. I see Hinderers everyday in the EDC thread.
 
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