Which machete for which conditions (plants), Alternative tools, helper tools.

[fnc]

I have read some great posts with pictures and watched several machete vids.

I have no sense of when you really NEED a machete, for Trail Clearing.
Every picture that I have seen, you do not need a machete to clear a trail.
Though I have read stories that the machete clearing was needed, I did not come
away with an understanding of the specifics of vegetation and alternative paths.

Since I use a number of examples, you could address one or more OR: links to
any articles, threads, youtubes, or magic google words, would be appreciated.

Example 1:
Do you have thick 6 feet tall grass, that you cannot walk though?
Would a Corn knife work for this? Do local stores sell something like this?

Example 2:
Do you have tough vines and/or scrub with insects or thorns that you cannot
maneuver though.

Example 3:
Can you use sticks or other tools to gather vegetation to assist machete usage?
Can you use sticks to push vegetation out of the way altogether?

Example 4:
How often could you walk around the thick vegetation, but decide it is
marginally easier to cut though?

 

[OwenM]

edit: I already typed a response, so you're going to get it anyway, but realized I may have been misreading your post.
Not really sure what the question is. Are you wanting to see examples of where a machete would come in handy, or asking about different types of machetes for different uses? I took it as the former when initially reading it.
Maybe I can help out with this part.

I have read some great posts with pictures and watched several machete vids.

I have no sense of when you really NEED a machete, for Trail Clearing.
Every picture that I have seen, you do not need a machete to clear a trail.
Though I have read stories that the machete clearing was needed, I did not come away with an understanding of the specifics of vegetation and alternative paths.

I've deleted most of my pics that are just of heavy brush, because..they're just of heavy brush. Have a couple that might give an idea of it, though. I didn't have a machete at either place, just wished that I had.

Down here we sometimes have what amounts to a wall of vegetation at treelines that get plenty of sun with lots of undergrowth, interspersed vines, and sticker bushes. Once you get a few yards past that tree line, you rarely need a machete, but you basically have to carve out a path through that first section because it can be so thick that a falling tree will be caught in it.
Here I had to back my truck up to the brush so I could stand in the bed, cut off some limbs, and try to see what was going on back there.

To the left of the tree in the next pic is the hole I chopped out so I could get back to the trunk of the tree.

That tree had been struck by lightning, and even though the downed side was mostly free, it was still attached by a strip that ran all the way to the roots and had to be chopped off. Even then, I still had to walk the length of the trunk on top of the brush and chop a bunch of vines. There were so many tangled around the trunk and remaining limbs that neither my Tundra 4x4 with a tow strap, nor my buddy's Ford F250 4x4 with a logging chain could pull it out(his wife took that pic from the Ford-I'm laughing at him because he made fun of my Toyota, then his "real truck" couldn't pull it out, either).


Following a riverbed between ridges, in late spring through early fall, the plentiful water and widely spread trees may result in a tangled mass of vines and brush. Through here I was following the river to see some rapids. Was walking on piles of vines that had leafy brush growing over them so I couldn't even see below my waist, and small trees growing up through that. I fell several times going up a ridge to get out of that stuff, because of vines around my lower legs, but never hit the ground because the vegetation was so thick it would hold me up(and I weigh about 200lbs). I don't have pics of the brush, but you can kind of see what the sides of the river look like.

This last one is from the same area, looking down a series of waterfalls I was climbing up to check out. Maybe you can see what the brush is like on each side when you're not following the water, and imagine going through that for miles. From 15 feet in either direction, you could not see that waterway, only hear it.

Example 4:
How often could you walk around the thick vegetation, but decide it is
marginally easier to cut though?

I don't know if that's what you were looking for, but there are lots of places in my area where if there is no existing trail, every step can be obstructed, sometimes for miles on end. If you wanted through that treeline, or to follow that river, there is no walking around, and going through the brush is the only option.

 

[fnc]

That was what I wanted to know: What the vegetation can be like. Alabama for you.
So it is very thick around streams and the edges (where sunlight is plentiful), but deeper
into the forest, it thins out, and has bigger trees, I presume. And you have thorns around
forest edges. Are you a member of the Chamber of Commerce?

My view, in the original post: you will need a machete, but where, and for how long, etc.

I read a South American post months (years?) ago, that they had to cut hundreds of yards
but there was no mention of how close the scrub trees were to each other. IIRC they
cut 1 inch trees and then had to re-cut some, because they had created punji (sharp) sticks.
Also I had no idea if this was second growth or what? Maybe the info was all there, but I was
up too late at night to absorb it.

Maybe most pictures are taken when people get to a "clearing" so it is very unrepresentative.

 

[beef]

Hi fnc, interesting question, I've never taken a machete for trail clearing. It would slow me down, for my conditions, much quicker to just barge through, even lawyer vines which rip clothing!

 

[ROCK6]

The only time I remember "needing" a machete was when we were clearing a site for a class when I was down in Ecuador. It was high-lands jungle and very thick in some areas; you still maneuver through it when hiking, but if you wanted to set up a camp (or clear a site like we did), the best tool was the machete.

Here in GA, at the back end of my lake, you really need something to cut through the sticker vines. I've tried maneuver through them and using a hiking stick, but they can be so thick that you'll end up getting your arms, legs and even face raked and scratched up. It's a tangled mess and unless you want to wade through the lake to go around, there isn't another option but through and a blade is the best tool. Even with a hiking stick, all you do is pull more sticker vines across your intended path. Even with a machete or other chopper, I still wear leather gloves and still get scratched up a little.

Another aspect is that if you're "trail blazing", it helps to beat and cut back some of the lower vegetation to just scare off any snakes or other critters that you wouldn't care to step on accidentally...

ROCK6

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Yesterday I needed a machete to clear dense overgrowth that was both blocking my way and preventing me from seeing where a boggy zone was. Wading through the grass would have been possible, but my shoes would have been soaked and I could have ended up infested with ticks.

For reference I was using my new CS two-handed panga with a partial back edge.

 

[pict]

Example 1: 6 feet tall grass, that you cannot walk though.

Here in Central Brazil we have a great deal of this kind of land. Sometimes it will be a short stretch that borders a forest other times it will be a very broad area. I like a long thin blade for this type of work.

Example 2: Vines and/or scrub with insects or thorns that you cannot
maneuver though.

For this type of conditions I like a Bolo or Golok, heavy, stiff, forward weighted blade cuts through woody vegetation better. The trouble comes when you have areas where you encounter both. Here we can go from open grassland, to dense scrub, to chest deep matted vegetation, to dense jungle, to Taquara thickets, all within the same 1 km walk downhill.

Example 3: Can you use sticks to push vegetation out of the way altogether?

Sometimes. Other times the vegetation is so thick if you fall you won't hit the ground. The only path is the one you chop. If I didn't have a machete in such a place I would cut myself a green stick about a meter long.

Example 4:How often could you walk around the thick vegetation, but decide it is marginally easier to cut though?

You always walk around thick vegetation if you have the option.

When I say "Clearing Trail" I'm not talking about opening up a trail that has grown over. I'm talking about creating a trail through bush that has not been traversed before. It is one of the hardest forms of travel you will encounter.

Here's the math on the subject. If you chop forward through one Km of bush creating a trail that is one meter wide, you have cleared 1000 square meters of brush. My property here in Brazil is 20 meters wide by 50 meters deep, 1000 square meters. That is about the limit that one man can do in a day of hard labor clearing brush. A day's work for one man buys a trail one Km long in dense bush.

What dictates where a trail goes is often the lay of the land under all that vegetation. Here in Central Brazil there is a huge vertical dimension to the landscape that has to be taken into account. You might be walking through open savannnah and come to a forested ravine. To walk around it downhill will lead you to where it connects to lowland forest. To go around uphill will lead you to steep rocky slopes choke with tall grasses. Either way it will be an all day detour so you pick a likely place and chop across maybe 300 meters or so. Sometimes it makes more sense to dig across Panama than to sail around South America.

In January we did a six day trip in the dense Atlantic Bush. Our plan was to explore the top of a ridge. The only way up was one gentle slope at one end or the far end 6 km away. The trail had to go up that gentle slope because everywhere else was simply too steep and covered with dense Taquara.

The vast majority of people who visit a jungle environment only ever experience it from a trail someone else has made. Spend a week off that trail and you will see your machete in a new light. Mac

 

[OwenM]

That was what I wanted to know: What the vegetation can be like. Alabama for you.
So it is very thick around streams and the edges (where sunlight is plentiful), but deeper
into the forest, it thins out, and has bigger trees, I presume. And you have thorns around
forest edges. Are you a member of the Chamber of Commerce?

My view, in the original post: you will need a machete, but where, and for how long, etc.

Right. Those examples were of exceptionally thick brush, and it would be wildly exaggerating to say that was typical. I rarely have a real need for a machete, even where there is no trail-just showing what it can be like. I've been thinking of a short machete or golok, but it would be for occasional use, not something I went around with in hand all the time.
Not a CoC member, so I don't have to portray anything through rose-colored glasses, either, though

 

[texastonydobbs]

I use my Machete alot in Texas,clearing/making trails, fire making etc.

 

[baldtaco-II]

I use a golok as a camp building tool rather than a trail making tool. Not the best illustrations but working with what I've got handy:

That's mah dog checking out a hollow under some inhospitable spikes. To get the bivvy bags under that I used a golok, saw and pruning shears. An ax would have been much less use to me.

Although most of it has died back you can clearly see the ground is a lattice of brambles. In addition to trimming a hole in the shrubbery that crap must me cleaned from the floor. Again, the golok and secateurs are the easiest way for me to do that.

This time of year the brambles are huge, then there's Hawthorn. Hawthorn is no Oplopanax horridus but can ruin your day anyway. There's also mundane things like thistles. Whilst not being particularly aggressive you definitely want to clear a patch if you're to bed down amongst those, and so on. Then there's harvesting. One of the most useful plants here is the humble stinging nettle. All sorts of interesting things can be made from the fibers, it's a great foodstuff, and makes a really good bedding / roofing. They grow in abundance here and at the moment many stands of them are taller than I. The Golok makes short work of reaping a huge pile.

Still, I don't use a knife when pruning shears work better any more than a gardener would. That's just dumb. And if it's just a matter of overcoming an obstacle on a trail, well mostly I'll go round, over, under before I cut. The golok mostly just helps me make good comfy nests off the trail. It isn't a tool just for trail walking. For a westerner that's too Tarzan fantasy for me, and more about making life harder than it needs be to it fit in with an adventure scenario that is fabricated in the mind to make the outdoors appear tougher than it is.

 

[SirJames]

A corn knife IS a machete and a machete IS a long knife.

They are all knives, machete is just a descriptive term like skinning knife, pocket knife, hunting knife, filet knife, etc.

 

[fnc]

So many good replies and so much good information.
I just re-read each of them & looked at pics again tonight.

Now I will go over to Youtube, and look at some machete or jungle
vids. I will get re-aquianted with some and watch other for 1st time.

 

[Toucan Oasis]

Hey Mac. Link to that video where you and Geo made your way up that mountain.

 

[pict]

Hey Mac. Link to that video where you and Geo made your way up that mountain.

That's a whole 13 video playlist. Its on my channel as "Machete Heaven", that was a week of serious chopping.

The Hack In There's some really dense grasses and tangled vines in the beginning of this one. At one point many years ago this had been a dirt road. The land on both sides of it was too steep to walk and very choked with woody brush.

Chopping it Up This was a day of cutting trail upslope through Taquara thickets.

Mac

 

[Thunderhorse]

Hey Texastoneydobbs

What kind of machete is that and where did you get it? Looks like a handy one.

Thunderhorse

 

[PayetteRucker]

For backpacking purposes I've never taken larger than a 15 inch Condor Bolo. I like flat grinds on machetes, for the most part. I like the cutting performance/edge retention balance, and on stiff brush scratch and green stuff it seems to be the most ideal. My Ontario Camp Machete (.125 inches) and the 12/14in Trams (very thin) all have V grinds. My Condor Bolo and Khukri (THICK.) are both convex, and both are more of a heavy limbing/chopping wood processing machete. I think that Condor convex grind is ideal for this purpose. Just got a Hibben IV in the mail, it's a full flat grind (half inch thick at the spine) with a convex edge and flat microbevel (horrendous grind and it's heat treated too hard to fix with a bastard file :/) though will be reprofiled to a V. It's so thick I'm not going to have to worry about edge retention or durability. TTD's machete is an Imacasa blade finished by ESEE-it's called the ESEE Lite Machete.

As for vegetation... I've lived in Central and Southeast Texas, Florida, Wisconsin and Idaho. Wisconsin has alot of dense thick woods with waist high woody brush. Florida, well... spider webs and swampy green stuff that's almost impassable. Texas has some good thick mesquite scratch in places but for the most part is arid hills and prairie, where limbing mesquite branches and working sagebrush is the toughest task a machete will have to perform. Idaho is high desert with intermittent strong pine forest and cottonwood/locust trees along seasonal streams-again, sagebrush and limbing soft woods. People say machetes shouldn't be used for extensive woodwork, but to be honest if you use correct technique, maintain a sensible edge profile and the correct design (material, blade thickness etc) of machete for it's intended purposes, they won't fail you.

 

[Thunderhorse]

Thanks for the info, pardon my ignorance but do you have a contact for Imasca and EESI? Thanks

TH

 

[j williams]

Thanks for the info, pardon my ignorance but do you have a contact for Imasca and EESI? Thanks

TH

ESEE has their own subforum here on BF in the manufacturers section. Knivesshipfree.com has those chetes in stock.

Look at Condors line of machetes. They are wicked and cheap. Best Ive ever used. goinggear.com, or machetespecialist.com carry em and are great guys to deal with. I have a few of them, and they are wonderfull. My favorite is the 14in carbon steel El Salividor model.

 

[Shotgun]

Around here there are a lot of blackberry bushes and sometimes they grow over older trails. Walking around isn't always an option.

 

[PayetteRucker]

I have read some great posts with pictures and watched several machete vids.

I have no sense of when you really NEED a machete, for Trail Clearing.
Every picture that I have seen, you do not need a machete to clear a trail.
Though I have read stories that the machete clearing was needed, I did not come
away with an understanding of the specifics of vegetation and alternative paths.

Since I use a number of examples, you could address one or more OR: links to
any articles, threads, youtubes, or magic google words, would be appreciated.

Example 1:
Do you have thick 6 feet tall grass, that you cannot walk though?
Would a Corn knife work for this? Do local stores sell something like this?

Example 2:
Do you have tough vines and/or scrub with insects or thorns that you cannot
maneuver though.

Example 3:
Can you use sticks or other tools to gather vegetation to assist machete usage?
Can you use sticks to push vegetation out of the way altogether?

Example 4:
How often could you walk around the thick vegetation, but decide it is
marginally easier to cut though?

Alot of trails are seasonal, especially in more remote areas. We've had so much water this year alot of the high desert trails are waist high dragon grass and thistles. That straight up sucks. I do alot of off-trail bushwacking as well, I love hiking in burn areas-and pine scratch can be nasty sometimes. A light machete is well... light... and good piece of mind in case you do find a stretch that is otherwise impassable.

1. Probably. A sickle or something like that would work well too. Though a Machete is going to be more useful around camp once you get there-it'd be hard to limb, chop and batton with a sickle...

2. When I lived in Florida, yes... that superdense tropical green stuff is a first rate pain in the butt, especially when the trails are so covered with spiderwebs they're impassable anyway. I put my Ontario Camp Machete (flat ground edge) through hell when living there.

3. Walking sticks can be handy or just get in the way, by getting tangled up and caught on stuff. It really depends on what you're trying to fight your way through.

4. How many times might you be lost, or not know of any way around? Canyonlands are pretty restrictive as to what you can pass through when you have 2000 foot cliffs on each side of you, and sometimes going around something will just get you confused, or worse yet lost.

Edit:crap, reviving an old thread :/ sorry!