Why are CRK considered semi-production?

Hansen

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I was wondering what constitutes a knife being considered a custom knife or a production knife. The obvious answers are that a custom knife is made by hand, by the maker, and production knives are produced by companies in an assembly line, type of environment. Some custom knife makers hire employees and/or apprentices which assist in the grinding, assembling and production of their blades. Not only that, they also farm out some of their work. When would a knifemaker's blades suddenly start being considered production? I was under the impression that many years ago Chris Reeve was considered a custom knifemaker; so why are Chris Reeve knives now considered production blades by many, and semi-production by others? Is it because CRK has grown?

Many production blades are being made for custom knifemakers, of the custom maker's design, using different materials than the custom blades, and mass produced by some other knife company - such as the many collaborations we now see between factories and custom knife maker's. One that comes to mind is Kit carson and his Model 4 that Outdoor edge cutlery is now producing a version of, called the Magna.

Lastly, could someone at CRK please let me know why they have limited their customers to only the buyers that can afford such expensive folders (I'm thinking of the Sebenzas), and not produced a more affordable version of the Sebenza; even if that meant using different metals and possibly even contracting another company to produce them? Realizing the high quality of CRK blades, I am sure CRK (like Kit Carson), could oversee and insure that a production version of their Sebenza folders would also be very high quality. Wouldn't it be great to have people that can't spend $300+ for a folder, suddenly be able to own a Sebenza? There will always be people that want, and can, buy the high end (custom?), Sebenzas. The increased sales of the production versions, would more than offset any loss in sales of the high end Sebenzas.

I personally would love to see a production version of the Sebenza line. For the way I see it, the current Sebenza line is of such high quality, AND PRICE, that I consider them to be custom, or semi-custom, blades.

That said, I better start saving up for another Sebenza, the best semi-production blades in the world.

Happy Trails...

ROMANS 6:23
 
So far only Chris Reeve Knives, custom makers and a few other “high-end” production companies have been able to deploy the use of the Integral Bar Lock successfully. Mass producing this type of lock has not proved an easy task for the production houses. CRK&T’s S-2 started with a very modified design, and Benchmade had to similarly change the lock on its Pinnacle (now Monolock) because of early production problems. Spyderco is going with the Rolling Lock instead of trying to do a production version of the Sebenza, a wise choice.

Add to that the custom quality fit and finish of the Sebenza, along with the best consistency and highest level of Quality Control in the industry, and you begin to see the reasons why the Sebenza costs what it does and has not been reproduced for less. Carry and use one for a short time and you will truly understand.


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James Segura
San Francisco, CA



 
Spyderco is not going with the Rolling Lock. I guess the two parties decided it wasn't mutually beneficial.

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I have eight thumbnail-linked detail digital photos of a Sebenza next to a Benchmade 750, at www.chaicutlery.com/chrisreeve.html , about 1/3 of the way down the page.

The pictures don't tell the whole story - slightly smoother action, BG42 steel and all, but they show the Benchmade as a well-made factory knife made to sell for a middle-class price, and the Chris Reeve as a very very well-made knife with lots of little details that, if Benchmade tried to match them on a 750 at higher volume than Chris Reeve produces, would add maybe another $100 at least to the 750's price tag.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
stjames,

Thanks for the helpful info. I didn't realize that Integral locks were so difficult to produce.

I guess it makes sense that Sebenzas are so very, very, well made, that it would be very difficult, to make a quality Sebenza that could be produced and sold for less money by CRK or any other manufacturer, to appeal to a different market of buyers that could only pay at most say, $150 for a folder.

I am still wondering why CRK Sebenzas are considered to be semi-production blades. Aren't knives either custom or factory made? Perhaps they are considerd by some to be semi-production knives, because they are made at a small knife shop (company?), with production type, methods.

James Mattis,
Even adding $100 to the price of a Benchmade, would result in a folder that many could afford, that cannot today afford a Sebenza. That's the type and cost of a Sebenza that I was hoping to see someday. (About 1/2 the retail cost of the present Sebenza's). Is that unrealistic?

Happy trails...
 
Hansen,

The term custom is pretty vague, but most would argue that it means that one person worked on the knife and only that person. CRK's has several people working on their knives (I think 7) and the blades are still handground. This enables them to turn out a greater quantity of knives while keeping quality high. This also lowers cost.

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Johnny
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Hansen, the definition of “custom” in the knife industry seems to be a knife that is hand made and “sole authored” to a large extent. I have no idea what these parameters are, and even some makers are wondering how far they can go with computer controlled machinery before they “cross the line”, so to speak.

All makers have to address the issue as their popularity increases. Many sell their designs to production companies and/or increase the backlog for their custom pieces. Some, in the fine entrepreneurial tradition that has fostered this country from its very beginning, will found their own companies and challenge the very definitions and expectations of the entire industry.

You might want to take a look at the company FAQ http://www.chrisreeve.com/faq.html for a more informed opinion.


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James Segura
San Francisco, CA



 
The debate about sole-authorship, custom, hand made etc. is as on-going as the Ford vs Chev, forged vs stock removal or IBM vs Mac - there are pros and cons on both sides and there is no right answer!

We have chosen to make our own way, create a niche that is unique. We do not make custom knives a such but we do customize to a limited extent. Our blades are hand ground and the tolerances that we work to are closer than almost any out there. We do use a CNC machining center to profile the blades and handles which ensures accuracy of each component. We make more knives in a year than would be possible if each knife were entirely hand made but we do not make anywhere near the quantity that is produced by the true production houses.

We are in a situation that does not fall into any typical category and so semi-production probably describes us best.

It is our goal to produce the best knives we possibly can - best in terms of design, performance, materials, workmanship and customer service. Then, taking all of this into account we arrive at the price that we do.

Anne
 
Anne,

Thanks for the clarification.
As far as I can see y'all are doing a splendid job at making a top-notch product.
I for one, look forward to becoming a Sebenza owner.

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The greatest thought that has ever entered my mind is that one day I will have to stand before a Holy God and give an account of my life.
*Daniel Webster

Rev 20:12

 
Ah, what the hey, I'll throw in my .02...

RE terms, "custom" shouldn't really be used to define "high-priced knives" (this latter term is less elegant but more accurate). As the term implies, "custom" should mean that the end-user/buyer has some say in the design of the knife -- hence, it was not pre-made, seen/handled by an interested party, then purchased. Rather, you go to Rob Simonich (for example) and say, "I like the Wambli's general design, but could I get it w/a blade 4.5" long and 1.25" in talonite?" Or, if you bring your own design to a maker, haggle over details, then arrive at a mutual agreement.

So, usually, the main distinction is actually between "handmade" vs "production." But even these terms are not absolutely distinct. The better production co's still sharpen and even do most grinding by hand. Many "handmade" kinfemakers do not do their own heat treat but prefer to send out to someone experienced like Paul Bos. Also, at what point is a knife shaped by "hand" v "machine"? Plus, everyone makes knives out of "raw" materials (steel, micarta, pins, etc) which are pre-made by companies, etc. etc.

So this is, i suppose, just a longwinded affirmation of Anne's statement: knifemakers decide on a process that works best for them, to balance their own standards of quality and consumer demands, and let us haggle over manufacturing definitions!

Glen


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“The piano has been drinking” -Tom Waits

 
Right you are, the term "custom" has nothing to do with price. A knife could cost a thousand dollars, but if there are others like it, then it's not custom.

A custom knife is something the made to the customer's specs.

Also, custom does not necessarily translate to high quality. Just because it's made to your design, doesn't mean it's made well. On the other hand, a production knife maybe of very high quality. But usually it's the other way around.
 
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