Why won't this 501 take an edge?

Kimberholic

Kimberholic

Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Messages
591
I have a Buck 501 lock back folder that I got as a kid in the late 70's. Well I never really used it much over the many years but still it was dull. I recently picked up a Spyderco Sharpmaker and have been sharpening everything that I can find. Everything seems to sharpen up quite nicely except for this old buck. My guess would be that the steel used is harder than most. I've probably made about 50-60 passes on the medium stone and it doesn't feel any sharper. Should I keep at it or is this steel too hard to sharpen?
 
no to both questions...no the steel is not too hard to sharpen and no you should never keep a dull knife around.

I am not totally familiar with the Sharpmaker but it sounds like it might just be too fine for the amount of metal you need to remove. If the edge is really rounded an aggressive diamond stone that you can put some weight behind would be better.

I would like to invite you to send in the 501 for a free sharpening. We usually charge $5 but I think I can talk Joe into waiving it. We will put our Edge 2X process to it, give you new angles that will be resharpenable and clean up the knife a little. It will be shaving when it comes back to you.

Either make contact with Joe first or print a copy of the thread and include with the knife.

Our shipping address is:
Buck Knives Inc.
attn: Joe Houser
1900 Weld Blvd
El Cajon CA 92020
 
50-60 passes of the medium stone over a very dull knife won't cut it. You may just have to keep at it awhile, particularly if the angle isn't quite what the knife was originally ground at. You may also want to try the diamond stones that are now available for the sharpmaker. I really doubt the metal's too hard. I've been sharpening D2 and CPM440V with mine without a problem.

Doug
 
I wish all companies had that kind of customer service! I would take Mr. Buck up on his offer, put a nice new edge on it, the knife will be good as new. Once you have that edge on it you can use the sharpmaker for finer sharpening later. Thanks
 
I find this an interesting topic. As a boy, I got both a late 1970's 501 and 503 and have never been able to sharpen them like later 500 series models or the other Buck knives I own. They cut, I just can't get them as sharp as I think I should be able to.

I have always thought I just couldn't sharpen knives well enough to get the job done, but I get good results with the Spyderco sharpmaker on all my other knives. Using a diamond stone, I got a decent, but not great, edge on the old 501. I never tried on the 503.

I believe Buck changed both the steel and the grind in the 1980's. Could this have something to do with the problem, or is it just my lack of skill?
 
Wow! That is a great offer Mr. Buck. I will gladly accept your service to get an edge on this puppy. I'll copy your letter and send it out this week. Thank you.

Jon
 
User, Yes we did change steels in 1980. Up until that time we had pioneered and used 440C as a replacement for file steel. My Father had felt that the 440C was rusting too much and wanted to know if we could get 58RC out of a steel that had less carbon. We switched to 425 Modified. It had a little over half the carbon that 440C did. This also allowed us to fineblank parts and helped with folder action with the accuracy in fineblanking.

In 94 we switched to 420HC. The HC stands for High Carbon, and is a relative term. Standard 420 is used for kitchen knives everywhere. The HC version is closer to the 425M and we get 57.5-58 RC consistently. Paul Bos has been a help there. This gives a nice mix of edge retention and corrossion resistance.

As to grinds...we totally changed our grinding in the 80's. We went from a semi hollow with a flat edging operation to a full hollow. It meant that there was not as much abuse resisting thickness along the edge but the new full hollow would cut better and hold an edge longer and be easier to resharpen.

In 2000 we redid this edge geometry again. Our testing said that edge geometry played a larger role in edge retention then blade material or hardness (when all things were fairly close). Edge geometry plays a huge role in resharpenability. Edge 2000, which we have now changed to Edge 2X keeps a very consistent edge thickness and a consistent edge grind thickness (bevel). We are looking for a bevel angle of 13-17 degrees on each side for an included angle of around 30 degrees.

One other point. The harder the steel the sharper you should be able to get your knife. When steel is sharpened to a fine edge it is very thin. Harder steels support themselves being thin better that softer steels so I have found that the knives we harden to 60 RC feel sharper to me. These edges being so fine also have a very high surface area to internal density ratio and many times edges are lost due to corrossion than use.

Sorry if I got a little long winded here.

User...you are welcome to send in your two knives as well for a free sharpen...I'll have to stay off this thread so Joe can hit his sharpening budget...:)
 
CJ - you don't need to stay off this thread - just give Joe a bigger budget to work with and he can sharpen all your giveaways.....:D

It is a real nice feeling to know the company you love and support, supports and loves you back. From me, as an individual consumer I'd like to say thanks for being as personally involved as you are!! That goes for the rest of the BUCK crew as well - Joe, Jeff, Cormac and some of the dealers.

And people wonder why BUCK KNIVES has such a loyal customer base.....

BTW - I "don't" need any knives sharpened...:) - But I did just send a couple to Joe for warranty work...;)
 
CJ- I put that 501 in the mail today. I'll be interested to see how it looks after the Edge 2X process and a factory cleaning. Thanks again.

I agree with Gypsy, Buck is a top notch company.

Jon
 
Thank you for your offer Mr. Buck. I may send the 503 in for sharpening, but I don't mind paying for it. There is nothing wrong with the knife, I'm just not skilled enough to get the job done. The 501 is well worn and is sharp enough for the use it sees. No point sending it in. Thanks again for your detailed response.
 
We need to get a Sharpmaker in to CJ's hands, He'll be impressed at what it does on the edge 2000! I asked quite a few qiestions before I bought mine and it works great!
guy
 
Make sure you send the knives to my attention. I would be happy to "spruce them up" for you.
Take care,
 
I am having the same problem tonight with an old Buck 703 that I've had since I was a kid. My Sharpmaker just isn't getting the job done. I may have to send this knife and a fiver to Buck. It sounds like its worth it.
 
My old BUCK 105 made some time between 67 and 68 takes and keeps a wicked edge.:) I have no problems sharpening it with a stone (Arkensa Medium and fine I believe) and doing touch ups on my Butchers Steel. Durn thing's like a razer:eek::D Could be do to the edge that my father put on it many many years ago. Am not sure, but what ever it is, I've been really impressed with BUCK.

Kimberholic and User, would love to hear how your blades turn out.
 
Wow. I'm really impressed with this thread! I haven't been to the Buck forum before, don't even have a Buck knife, although I've always liked the 110. I'm stopping by Cabelas next week, I just added a 110 to my list.

It's nice to see a manufacturer stand behind their product. Makes the decision easy...
 
Originally posted by swede79
Wow. I'm really impressed with this thread! I haven't been to the Buck forum before...

It's nice to see a manufacturer stand behind their product. Makes the decision easy...
Click to expand...
Swede, just wait!!

If you think you're impressed with this thread, and the Buck Forum, it will only get better once you actually own a Buck Knife. The 110 is one of their standards and, IMHO, the best folder on the market. But they have more - bigger - smoother - fancier..... And the management at Buck stop in here almost every day to chit-chat and handle problems. Their Customer Service is as legendary as the knives the make.

If you haven't done so yet, check out their website - www.buckknives.com - and take a look at the rest of their line. Also keep in mind, that the 2003 models are just starting to hint at coming out.

Welcome to YOUR new addiction !!!!
 
Jon,
I wanted to let you know i have your knife and will turn it over to Efrin, our rework specialist. Should have it done and back in the mail to you in no time.
Take care,
 
Originally posted by Gypsy9590
Swede, just wait!!

If you think you're impressed with this thread, and the Buck Forum, it will only get better once you actually own a Buck Knife.

Welcome to YOUR new addiction !!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks Gypsy.

As with other forums here, I am finding out that when people are passionate about their knives, there's generally a very good reason for it, especially with time-honored designs. I'm looking forward to getting better acquainted with Buck knives. Thanks for the link!
 
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