Will S30V ever be an "outdated" steel to you?

[VorpelSword]

The fact that Crucible has come out with two "updated" generations since S30V was released in 2001 (i.e., S35VN and S45VN) suggest it's getting a little long in the tooth. Magnacut is interesting because it is exceptionally well-rounded. For less than a 10% decrease in edge retention compared to S30V, Magnacut offers 3-4x the toughness, is close to corrosion-proof, and is easy to sharpen. The extreme edge retention steels (e.g., S90V/S110V/S125V, ZDP-189) still have a niche they dominate. But for a general EDC stainless steel, pretty much everything is going to be substantially worse than Magnacut in at least 2 out of the 3 primary steel qualities (edge retention, toughness, corrosion resistance). That sort of combination makes pretty much all general-use stainless steels "outdated" by comparison.

440C is absolutely outdated, but for a shop like Randall, that's sort of the point. You're paying for a nostalgic heirloom that's more or less the same as the knives they've been making for the last 80+ years.

Thanks for that. I thought as much about S30V and its offspring. I bought a CRK Green Beret in 2004 in S30V because it seemed to be the best I could buy for an active-duty Marine. Today, I would have bought something in a current or "modern" steel.

But wow . . .I made statements like that about Randall Made a few years ago and got pointed. . . and the blow-back was vicious and persistent. Finally, I got pointed and told not to be a troll.

To be clear: It is my belief that Randall Made knives are just as good today as they were in 1945.

 

[Lesknife]

The thing that always makes me shake my head about complaints about s30v is that a lot of people didn’t and still don’t know how to sharpen it.
Then the complaints about edge chipping . There are many knife steels in the higher hrc hardness that when they are sharpened at the factory on a power grinder or belt grinder it can cause apex burn or carbide tearout that leads to edge chipping. And different people doing the sharpening will have different results, some better than others. I have found that after a few sharpening I get into fresh unaffected metal and the chipping stops. And this is with several different knives in s30v and others like 20cv. If all knives were factory sharpened by hand powered sharpening methods I think there wouldn’t be much of any chipping issues.
When I was around 12-13 yo my family had a leather shop and shoe repair business and we used a lot of different knives. I learned how to sharpen knives back then and about getting the apex to hot and even the carbon steels with a 56-57 hrc if they got the apex hot they would chip. In busy times we used the belt grinder but when we weren’t as busy we sharpened by hand on a stone. That’s where we learned the difference. We finally got extra knives to rotate so that we could sharpen by hand all the time.

 

[midnight flyer]

For me? No.

But knife makers and knife manufacturers have to have something to sell. If they can't sell the latest and greatest aspects of a knife, what do they have?

And certainly plenty of people have to have the latest and greatest as is easily seen here. There are those here that are giddy as school girls when a new steel is announced and hold their breath until somebody posts a review.

And there are plenty more that say ,"if they would only make that knife with S4000XN4, I would buy one right now!"

For those of us that have s30v and its ilk, we will happily sail away into the sunset using it. I hear the construction version of this tune just about every time I am out of job and pull out one of my older tools. There are claims from the youngsters that I have robbed a museum, and certainly everyone considers me "old school". I like what I like, and I like what I know. That's the long and the short of it.

I always tell them to calm down and drink their juice boxes and eat their Scooby snacks and get back to work.

 

[sodak]

I've never cared for it, tested it back in the early 2000's. In my knives, the only S30V that held a good edge were Buck knives with their Paul Bos heat treating. From every other maker, I thought it was horrible, much worse than AUS 8A. Aluminum flashing would have done a better job.

So if it's a Buck I'll think about buying it, but from anyone else, I'll pass. I never had chipping issues, just edge holding cutting fibrous materials. Since there are now many better edge holding steels on the market, I pretty much pass on S30V.

 

[tltt]

At some point it will, not to me, but to some. I'm perfectly happy with lots of steels as long as the grind and heat treat are good relative to the work asked of it.

440c (and most of the 440 class) had about a 40-50 year run before people really started to look down on it as a budget steel.
154CM/ATS34 had about 30-40 years before it started to move into the "old" class.
etc...., etc.....

So S30V still has some time.

 

[Hashishiin]

The thing that always makes me shake my head about complaints about s30v is that a lot of people didn’t and still don’t know how to sharpen it.

Is this referring to people sharpening on normal stones, or people sharpening with power tools?
I have found steels that are supposed to be very hard, like K390, to hone fine on Spyderco white rods, the highest grit. I have CBN stones but have not yet needed them.

 

[Lesknife]

Is this referring to people sharpening on normal stones, or people sharpening with power tools?
I have found steels that are supposed to be very hard, like K390, to hone fine on Spyderco white rods, the highest grit. I have CBN stones but have not yet needed them.

Yes , or diamond plate.
Myself I use diamond plate mostly and a strop.

 

[VorpelSword]

Duplicate Post.

Sorry

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

Thanks for that. I thought as much about S30V and its offspring. I bought a CRK Green Beret in 2004 in S30V because it seemed to be the best I could buy for an active-duty Marine. Today, I would have bought something in a current or "modern" steel.

But wow . . .I made statements like that about Randall Made a few years ago and got pointed. . . and the blow-back was vicious and persistent. Finally, I got pointed and told not to be a troll.

To be clear: It is my belief that Randall Made knives are just as good today as they were in 1945.

At this point, I wouldn't dismiss a knife just because it uses S30V, but it's not a "plus" either. If I was buying a PM2, I wouldn't go hunt down a deadstock S30V version over a new S45VN one. But when I got my Smock back when it was released a few years ago, S30V was the only option and I liked the design.

Yes, BF has some individuals who get very touchy if they think you're insulting their preferred maker/model/steel/color/whatever. My comment wasn't intended as a slight against Randall, but as an acknowledgment that 440C is "a feature, not a bug" for that sort of knife; the same would apply to the Buck 110. Another subsection of folks might think classifying a Randall as an "heirloom" type product, rather than a tool for breaking down elk, is a slight. But most of them know that the vast majority of people on the Randall waitlist are not planning on taking their knives into the field.

 

[Larrin]

S30V still feels new to me.

 

[Bob Denman]

I get that S30V isn't considered to be a "SuperSteel" anymore.
But it's still a "Pretty Darn Good" steel!

 

[Jakeywax31]

S30v is a great steel. I have owned many and they have all been good to great. Holds an edge well, is pretty stainless and I have no troubles getting a great edge with it. Call me crazy but I prefer benchmade s30v over their other "supersteel" offerings.

 

[irsh]

It's going to always be steel and steel makes a good blade. Some high end makers are still using some form of 440 and it's just fine.

I'm sure that's been said before...

8,000 BC: "It's going to always be flint and flint makes a good blade."
3000 BC: "It's going to always be bronze and bronze makes a good blade."
1500 BC: "It's going to always be iron and iron makes a good blade."
2023AD: It's going to always be steel and steel makes a good blade.
2100AD: "It's going to always be graphene and graphene makes a good blade."

 

[jstn]

S30V occupies a weird spot for me. It’s a fine steel, but I value toughness over edge retention. As such, I really enjoy budget knives in Nitro V and 14c28n, or if I go high end, I’m looking for something like Magnacut, Cruwear, 4V, etc. That said, S30V remains an industry standard, and no matter what great new steels are developed, S30V will still cut.

 

[AntDog]

S30v is a great steel. I have owned many and they have all been good to great. Holds an edge well, is pretty stainless and I have no troubles getting a great edge with it. Call me crazy but I prefer benchmade s30v over their other "supersteel" offerings.

This, all day. Benchmade’s treatment of this steel is top notch. I love just about everything about it. Sharpens nasty sticky sharp easily and doesn’t have a wire edge that flops around, holds the edge a long time, doesn’t chip or roll easily.

 

[VorpelSword]

At this point, I wouldn't dismiss a knife just because it uses S30V, but it's not a "plus" either. If I was buying a PM2, I wouldn't go hunt down a deadstock S30V version over a new S45VN one. But when I got my Smock back when it was released a few years ago, S30V was the only option and I liked the design.

Yes, BF has some individuals who get very touchy if they think you're insulting their preferred maker/model/steel/color/whatever. My comment wasn't intended as a slight against Randall, but as an acknowledgment that 440C is "a feature, not a bug" for that sort of knife; the same would apply to the Buck 110. Another subsection of folks might think classifying a Randall as an "heirloom" type product, rather than a tool for breaking down elk, is a slight. But most of them know that the vast majority of people on the Randall waitlist are not planning on taking their knives into the field.

TThanks for that clarification. I agree with about all of it.

When buying knives for our son to take into a war zone in 23004, one of them was a Cuda Maxx folding dagger from Camillus. this is a licensed copy of the Darral Ralph Madd Maxx at a tenth of the price. To make that price point, the Titanium handles are simply anodized blue, and the blade is D2 steel. Back then, D2 was still considered to be a quality knife steel. Ka-Bar was producing the "21st Century Uility Fighter" in 2D; a USMC fighting knife look alike with synthetic handle instead of leather. Tahis model is now their" Extreme Fighter "("Survival"?), still in 2D but with a coated blade. There were other knives as well. I was a bit nuts with parental anxiety at the time.

None of these knives were bought with the idea of this or that knife becoming a revered family heirloom for a wall display. Each was bought to be a serious tool for a warfighter that would help bring our boy home intact. One of the belt knives I bought back then was a Chris Reeve "Green Beret" inS30V. Today, few makers use that steel. The post deployment debrief was the perception that this was the most useful and rugged of the fixed blades he had. CRK dropped that blade alloy several years ago looking for even better for their military knives.

When he deployed again, his Randall Made #16-1 "Special Fighter" in 440C was left at home. The CRK went off strapped to his plate carrier.

If buying for the same reason today, I would not hesitate to get the same model from CRK in whatever current alloy they use . . . . at whatever price point it is offered.

 

[115Italian]

I still like S30v. Heck I still like 154cm too. I rather S30v over S35vn.

 

[VorpelSword]

I'm sure that's been said before...

8,000 BC: "It's going to always be flint and flint makes a good blade."
3000 BC: "It's going to always be bronze and bronze makes a good blade."
1500 BC: "It's going to always be iron and iron makes a good blade."
2023AD: It's going to always be steel and steel makes a good blade.
2100AD: "It's going to always be graphene and graphene makes a good blade."

Thanks! I love it!

Who really cares but . . .A clarification. The Bronze Age ended around 1200-1100 BC. There is a good article on the Bronze Age Wikipedia . A tedious but interesting (to me) book on this subject is "1177 BC, the year Civilization Fell".

The Iron Age in Europe didn't flower till around 800BC.

Again, I recognize that none of this really matters to anyone today.

 

[K.O.D.]

I’m glad you said most knifes. But, I wouldn’t take it to everyone of them. There are actually some people who's profession and lifestyle are able to tell the difference in the performance.
Maybe you should get out more and learn about other things that other people do and work with then maybe you might have a better understanding. It seems there are many people on the forum want to compare everything to their own standard of profession, work, lifestyle and hobbies without considering there are other ways other than their own ways.
In your world maybe you don’t do things or encounter the materials, situations and environments that really put a knife steel to the test. So you don’t really have a need for the super steels and that’s okay but in my world I have need for super steels and I’m glad we have them. That doesn’t mean yours is junk or trash, it just means you don’t have need of something else.

My late father's best friend has been a finishing carpenter on high end homes since he was 16. He generally bought cheap knives at the sporting goods stores, and when they got dull, just bought a new one.

He was over here about 6 years ago and learned I was into knives. He looked at some of mine, and asked me for a recommendation of something that would stay sharper longer snd that would be worth sharpening. He really liked my S30V PM2, and decided that's what he wanted. His buddy had one. He ended up buying one in S110V. He has used the hell out of it and he said compared to the cheap stuff, he will never look back. His buddy ended up buying one in S110V as the difference in edge retention was making him jealous.

So there are those real world users where it makes a difference.

Also, I don't see S35VN as an improvement on S30V. For one, in my experience there has been a great variation in edge retention on the many S35VN folders I own and have owned. The Heretic Manticore E has been the best, but my PM2 stays sharp noticeably longer. Now I've only sharpened the Heretic once, and the PM2 quite a bit, but still.

 

[HexY3co]

I'm sure that's been said before...

8,000 BC: "It's going to always be flint and flint makes a good blade."
3000 BC: "It's going to always be bronze and bronze makes a good blade."
1500 BC: "It's going to always be iron and iron makes a good blade."
2023AD: It's going to always be steel and steel makes a good blade.
2100AD: "It's going to always be graphene and graphene makes a good blade."

Oh I remember those days. I was using bone until some genius brought along flint, that bastard. Had a really good collection of bone just laying around the cave too. Mostly family members.