Will Spyderco enter the "hard use" market? Thick liners & blade, compression lock.

Hey Sal,

I guess with me it just inspires confidence. Until recently I always carried liner locks and I liked a thicker liner, to me that meant a better lock. I just assume that it still holds true even on other types of locks. For instance, the test I have seen with the lock on the Benchmade Adamas. IIRC what failed was the liner deformed where it holds the pin for the axis lock. So I would assume that in a lock like the compression lock the thicker the liners the stronger the lock. Even though I understnad that the liners are not the only part of the compression lock.
Of course I could be wrong in my assumptions, I will defer to you. That's why I am here, is to learn.
 
Personally, I've never understood all the controversy surrounding lock strength. For centuries, most folding knives didn't even have a lock. The only time pressure is being exerted on the lock is when the blade is being forced downward. I don't try to cut with the spine of my knives, nor would I baton with any folding knife.

Any hard use task that I can think of that wasn't downright abuse designed to destroy the knife should be in the capabilities of ANY Spyderco or other reputable manufacturer's lock designs.
 
KrisOK said:
Personally, I've never understood all the controversy surrounding lock strength. For centuries, most folding knives didn't even have a lock. The only time pressure is being exerted on the lock is when the blade is being forced downward. I don't try to cut with the spine of my knives, nor would I baton with any folding knife.

Any hard use task that I can think of that wasn't downright abuse designed to destroy the knife should be in the capabilities of ANY Spyderco or other reputable manufacturer's lock designs.
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While you are correct. 90% of the time a slip joint would probably work for whatever you are doing with a knife. I guess the fascination with lock strength is the same as people that like sports cars that go 200mph or need an F250 and all they pull is a bass boat. Whithout getting into why I prefer a larger overbuilt knife, I have legit reasons. That is why I prefer them, even though most of the time it is overkill for me.
 
Ford1911 said:
Hey Sal,

I guess with me it just inspires confidence. Until recently I always carried liner locks and I liked a thicker liner, to me that meant a better lock. I just assume that it still holds true even on other types of locks. For instance, the test I have seen with the lock on the Benchmade Adamas. IIRC what failed was the liner deformed where it holds the pin for the axis lock. So I would assume that in a lock like the compression lock the thicker the liners the stronger the lock. Even though I understnad that the liners are not the only part of the compression lock.
Of course I could be wrong in my assumptions, I will defer to you. That's why I am here, is to learn.
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Lock failure is an urban myth that does not impact well-built knives. I have not heard of a Manix, GB, or Tuff lock failing during the course of normal use, even when subjected to rough tasks.

I prefer slimmer liners, just thick enough to get the job done, that keep weight and handle thickness down. Few things are more annoying than a wide, bulky folder that rides poorly in the pocket and offers little additional strength.
 
Oakengroves said:
Lock failure is an urban myth that does not impact well-built knives. I have not heard of a Manix, GB, or Tuff lock failing during the course of normal use, even when subjected to rough tasks.

I prefer slimmer liners, just thick enough to get the job done, that keep weight and handle thickness down. Few things are more annoying than a wide, bulky folder that rides poorly in the pocket and offers little additional strength.
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Lock failure is rare, but it's not an urban myth. I have not seen a Manix,GB or Tuff fail either but as far as rough tasks that can be very different depending on the person you ask. If you live on a ranch,farm or do manual labor for a living your idea of rough tasks may be very different from someone who mainly only takes out his knife to open letters or ups boxes.
 
Hi Ford,

When we test something, we build a model, put it in our breaking machine and see what fails. If the desired strength is not there, we rebuild the part that failed. Maybe thicker, but also maybe a stronger material, a harder heat treat, or a different interface. Then we test it again, etc. until the desired strength is achieved. "You have to exceed the limit to find the limit" (Dick Newick).

Overbuilt to a point is ok, but you wouldn't want to drive a tank to work. Thicker is often heavier, heavier is not as often carried. No more than necessary and no less than perfect. Optimal is better than extreme, from our point of view. To our thinking, the most important part about a knife is that you have it with you when you need it. Knives that are uncomfortable or difficult to carry are often left in the drawer in favor of a more user friendly to carry piece. Other makers certainly have their own points of view as to their designs.

All locks are good and all locks can fail. We try to make them as fail-safe as possible. They are tested numerous times when being built and in QC. But there are always other factors: age, wear, abuse, grit, etc.

Just some thoughts to share.

sal
 
What exact "hard use" are you doing with your knives?

Spyderco has many good hard working knives. They're just not ridiculous overly built knives that dont cut worth a damn.

I love everything about Spyderco, Sal and the family run a amazing business.
 
Ford, Have you seen the Manix 2 XL????? I just got one this week. This thing is great, to say the least. I use knives hard, and am like minded on hard use folders. This knife, for $110, cannot be beat. As an added bonus, it's stupid big, and IS decent to carry. Hope this helps.

Edited for my mistake.
 
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What he ^^^^^ said.

The Manix 2XL is about as beefcake as a folder can be without going over-the-edge huge and burly IMO.

I've used the crap out of my $100 M2XL in a lot of different and strenuous situations and it performs every time very well...just sharpen it back up clean it out and you're good.
 
RamZar said:
Hard-use and cutting abilities in one knife are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I give you the examples in my posts above.
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I was out on the deck smoking some ribs and munching on some grapes and I thought about what you said. Although I don't claim to have even marginal food prep skills I wanted to see how a knife like the Adamas with a thick blade would perform against the PM2.
The PM2 was a little better at slicing but as far as peeling the grape one did as good as the other.
I agree with you that just because a knife has a thick blade does not mean it isn't a good slicer.
These 2 knives are both awesome knives imo.
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L2bravo said:
Ford, Have you seen the Manix 2 XL????? it's stupid big, and not decent to carry. Hope this helps.
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That sounds right up my ally. :D That actually may be one of my next knives. As soon as I get out of trouble for buying these last 3 all at the same time.
 
We try to make liners thicker where a thicker liner might provide more of something where after. The compression lock doesn't have to made from the liner, it can be an added part. The patent allows for many possibilities.

Liners are necessary for linerlocks, but they can be minimal as long as they're securely fastened and work on the interface. Liners are good for securing clip screws. Liners add strength to pivots (both lock and blade), but the question then becomes how much strength do you want? Liners can add stiffness where needed.

sal
 
I can cut up boxes, open envelopes, strip wire, and filet a fish with a knife with no liners at all. My UKPK with the leaf shaped blade. No liners, no lock, no failures, gets carried just about anywhere anytime, it's so flat and light weight. It's like a mini Military with less metal inside. :)
 
Sal,

Why are the steel liners on the Bradley so thick and overall making my favorite non-flipper Spyderco somewhat too heavy?
 
Ford1911 said:
I think you are right, that looks about the closest to anything that would meet what I am looking for.
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I'm fairly certain that you will like the knife. It's open construction, fit and finish is excellent, thick VG10 blade full flat grind, and the compression lock. It's a really nice pice, unfortunately, it's recently been discontinued, but there are some still fo sale in some places and on the Exchange here.
 
RamZar said:
Why are the steel liners on the Bradley so thick and overall making my favorite non-flipper Spyderco somewhat too heavy?
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Hi RamZar,

That's how Bradley designed the knife. He was thinking heavy duty like ranch hand or farmer.

sal
 
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