Would you mind reviewing a new set of kitchen knives?

J

johan851

Joined
May 23, 2009
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7
First post! I always run across this forum when searching for recommendations on knives, which in the past has usually been for folders, and I always come away with something useful. Thanks!

My employer recently gave me a rather large Amazon gift certificate in exchange for not sucking at my job, so I've decided to finally get some nice kitchen knives. I currently live in a bachelor pad kind of situation and nice knives aren't really safe to have here, so I've been putting it off. But given the recent cash influx and the fact that I'll be moving out soon, I figured it was finally time to pull the trigger. I enjoy cooking and I've never had a nice set of knives, so I'd probably be happy with just about anything.

The knowledge I've gathered so far suggests that I should get a good chef's knife, a small paring knife, and maybe a bread knife to get started. After reading some reviews and opinions it seems like these would be good choices:

Shun Classic 8" chef's knife
Victorinox 3.25" paring knife
Victorinox 3.25" serrated paring knife
Victorinox 10.25" bread knife

Do those look ok to everyone?

Beyond that, I was also wondering if there's any value in getting a slightly nicer paring knife. It seems like they're generally considered a sort of throwaway knife, but if I take good care of something like a Henckels 3" paring knife, would it be worth it?

My other question involves working with meat. I don't find myself butchering entire cows on a regular basis, but I occasionally work with chicken bones and maybe some pork/beef bones. The chef's knife should apparently stay far away from bones, so what should I use for this kind of thing? A cleaver seems too heavy (I was looking at and inexpensive 7" cleaver) and a santoku should apparently not be used around bones either.

And, while we're at it, should I use a block for storage or something else? And is a Spyderco Sharpmaker a reasonable choice for honing the chef's knife?

Thanks a bunch!
 
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I've heard good things about the Shun knives. I'd love to try one out but right now I'm still on a beer budget, so to speak!

I have several paring knives, usually pretty inexpensive knives that take a great edge with just a little work. One of them is a white handle Dexter that I love. A couple of them are Kuhn Rikon brand. I've never handled the Victorinox kitchen knives but they have a pretty good rep in other knives.

A good bread knife is a must. I'm in the market for one right now. Not too stiff and not too flexible....just right! If you get the one you picked you might do a review for us.

A decent boning knife is one of my must have tools in the kitchen also. I've never had a need for a cleaver, don't understand what I'd use one for.

Good luck in your search. Keeping nitwits away from your knives is one of the best things you can do for their care!
 
I would suggest to do some further research on the chef knife. A Shun wouldn't be my first choice. I must admit they look great out of the box. The faux damascus won't stay that nice. The steel is curiously a little chippy, even with the standard edge of some 34 degree inclusive. Other VG-10 blades hold easily a 25 degree inclusive edge, so I guess there is a problem with the heat treatment. The profile is rather German with a lot of belly. The price is quite high for a relatively poor performer. Have a look a what you may get for $150: Hiromoto AS or G3, Kagayaki VG-10, Richmond Artifex, Fujiwara FKM...
 
Benuser said:
I would suggest to do some further research on the chef knife. A Shun wouldn't be my first choice.
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Yeah, after some further review I was a bit turned off of them. They seem to be a fine knife, but not for the money. An alternative I found that's available on Amazon is the Miyabi Kaizen series, which apparently is as well balanced as the 600D series (which people seem to like) and also made with hard VG10 steel.

I spent a *lot* of time yesterday reading from threads from the helpful, yet slightly insane folks at Knifeforums.com. I'm a little worried about some of these nicer Japanese style knives given that I'm a bit of a noob and they're easy to chip. It made me wonder if I should get something like the Miyabi 600S series, which are Japanese style with softer German steel. I know many consider that a terrible tradeoff, but my thinking is that they're cheaper, softer (meaning more forgiving and less likely to get damaged), and still take a good edge. Since they won't get super heavy use that seems like it might be an acceptable compromise. What do you think?

Have a look a what you may get for $150: Hiromoto AS or G3, Kagayaki VG-10, Richmond Artifex, Fujiwara FKM...
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I have the weird condition that they need to be available from Amazon... the widely recommended Hiromoto and Fujiwara don't seem to be.
 
A forgiving Japanese knife would be the Misono 440, thin but not chippy. A much better compromise than a soft thick German.
 
Benuser said:
A forgiving Japanese knife would be the Misono 440, thin but not chippy. A much better compromise than a soft thick German.
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I was under the impression that the Miyabi 600S was more of a soft thin hybrid. Is that not right? I think the Misono at around $200+ might be a bit out of my price preference...
 
A soft steel can not be both thin behind the edge AND have a thin edge. Spine thickness though is mostly irrelevant.
 
@ johan851

I removed the links you had in your first post. Linking to a non-paid BF dealer is not allowed and is considered deal spotting.

Thanks

Jason
 
Benuser said:
You will find the Misono 440 @ $160.
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Thanks for that. I did a bit of reading and it seems like both the 440 and the Misono Molybdenum knives are very nice - do you know anything about the moly line, since they're a little cheaper? There's a 210mm gyutou for $108, and at that price point I could get a nice paring knife in the same line.
 
If you aren't used to high end knives grab a Victorinox 8'' chef's knife. They can be had for under $25. I got one recently and it's surprisingly good. I sharpened it up quickly on my Sharpmaker and it took a nice edge. Got shaving sharp very fast. You might give one a shot before dropping $200 or so on a really high end knife, plus you can always use it to practice your sharpening technique.
 
Expect the 440 to be somewhat harder and take a little finer edge; if you're a good sharpener the edge retention will be superior as well. The molly will be more forgiving. F&F of the 440 at the highest level. Price difference is excessive and does not reflect difference in value.
 
F&F of the 440 at the highest level. Price difference is excessive and does not reflect difference in value.
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Sorry if I'm misunderstanding - you mean the F&F is the same, and the only difference is slightly harder steel in the 440? So the 440 isn't 50% better, as the price would suggest. :)

If you aren't used to high end knives grab a Victorinox 8'' chef's knife.
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That really seems to be the easy way out of my conundrum. I think I've already settled on Victorinox for everything but the chef's knife. I might just get the Victorinox 8" (can't go wrong at $25) and see how I like it and how sharpening goes. I have a sharpmaker as well, but I'll probably get a King combination waterstone for the long run. If I'm unhappy with that or just feel like upgrading, I'll try something a little nicer in the $100-$150 range like the Misono 440/Molybdenum Gyuto 210mm or 240mm, and maybe a paring knife to match.
 
I like my Victorinox pairing knives. They were cheap. Take a great edge and are easy to maintain.
 
Viper715 said:
I like my Victorinox pairing knives. They were cheap. Take a great edge and are easy to maintain.
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It seems that even a lot of professionals prefer these over others. And there's a set of a regular parer, serrated parer, and bird's beak for $12, which seems crazy. What about a boning knife? Is there a specific Victorinox style you'd recommend for that?
 
Hi, here’s my 2 cents…

Yes, a knife block, drawer system, edge guards, etc. will help preserve the edge of your knives. On the cheap, you can make your own edge guards with some plastic folders or cardboard and some tape. I don’t know if the sharpmakers’ preset sharpening angles matches that of a Japanese knife. Even if it did, I’ve read that the sharpmaker is a better honing than sharpening tool.

Are you deboning (removing the meat from the bone) or cutting through the bones? If you’re deboning, you’re looking for something with a stiff and narrow blade. Personally, I use a stiff petty or utility knife b/c I don’t like sharpening the area in front of the extend finger guard that most boning knives have. If you’re cutting through bones, you’re looking for something stout and heavy. For fish and poultry bones, a german chef’s knife or med-heavy (not the thin or std. weight) Chinese cleaver -- $20 at any asian grocery store. For heavier bones, look for a western meat cleaver, but keep in mind that it will have no problems hacking through a normal cutting board. I can’t recall that last time I used mine and think it’s better to use a saw or ask you butcher to do it.

The Victorinox bread knife is vgood, and more than enough for people who aren’t bread fanatics.

I like the Kuhn Rikon a more than the Victorinox pairing knife, but both are excellent. Both have finely grained steels (takes a great edge) and have semi flexible blades. All of the more expensive pairing knives that I’ve used had harder & stiffer blades that didn’t follow contours as well. Plus, much of the advantages of a better blade (edge retention, etc.) doesn’t come into play b/c pairing knives normally aren’t used against a cutting board or hard foods.

I’ve used & maintained several of my friends’ Shuns. Myself, I’m not a huge fan of Shun chef’s knifes’ long, deeply curved belly and high upswept tip. I find the upswept tip makes cutting things with the tip very difficult b/c you have to elevate your arm & contort your wrist in a very awkward way to get it to touch the cutting board. The belly or edge curvature is so deeply rounded that you have to use a rocking motion and put forth more effort into pumping / raising the handle to get the food underneath the blade - than with a more moderately curved edge. The roundness of the edge tends to produce cuts that are not completely severed –especially when chopping (straight up & down) or slicing. While many users have not, my friends and others http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/474252 have experienced chipping on the chef’s knife (classic). IMO, the Miyabi knives (vg-10) are better than the Shuns.

The Miyabi 600s and other german steeled knives, as well as mac, Japanese Molybdenum steel lines (fujiwara, Misono) are all softer / tougher than Vg-10.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone, I really appreciate it.

I think I'm going to get a Victorinox boning knife, paring knife, and 8" chef's knife to start out. That'll give me some good practice with sharpening and a chance to see how I like each knife. It looks like there are some pretty cheap edge guard options on Amazon, so I'll do that to make it easy to keep everything loose in a drawer.

I don't hack at bones often at all, so I'll skip the cleaver for now.

Depending on how much I enjoy maintaining, sharpening, and using those knives I might get a Misono or Togiharu 240mm gyuto down the road, probably in one of the less expensive stainless varieties.
 
I work in a professional kitchen and would recommend against the Shuns especially their chef knife. I tried it out, and the angle is terrible. I got a crazy deal on some of the Kaji line of Shun knives (SG2 powdered steel) so I went with a 4.5" pairing, a 6.5" Nakiri and a 5" Santoku. It was my first set of kitchen knives, fyi. I loved the pairing knife and nakiri but I would say check out a different chef knife (Hattori, Ryusen Blazen, Misono, Fujiwara) or go for the bigger santoku. I wish I would have gotten the 7" version. I've also heard from chef/knife forums that the Shun bread knives are good as well. The knives I use the most though, are the Victorianox Forshner 10" chef knife and serrated pairing knife (under 40 bucks for the set). They sharpen up easily and I'm not worried about the retards I work with dropping or stealing them.
 
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