Z-TUFF

I am wondering where Miller Brothers gets their supply? I know that they charge a lot for their hawks and blades, but I would still love to know what they pay for the Z Tuff and Z Wear. As best as I can figure, a hawk sized piece of Z Tuff would run you well over $200.
 
jdm61 said:
Might it be a hair tougher than INFI/A8m? The charts seem to indicate that it is within a couple of points of S7. I am interested to see what kind of edge it takes. that is the upside of 3V at slightly higher hardnesses.
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I haven’t pushed it to really thin edges yet! But at 60rc, I’m sure you would be good at 15dps! I don’t see a need to go thinner than that for a rough use blade!
 
Yes, but if this stuff could be a 3V replacement, then thin edges have their place. I have used 3V for a couple of small knives where the tip was thin enough to flex like it was spring tempered even though it was at 60.
 
jdm61 said:
I am wondering where Miller Brothers gets their supply? I know that they charge a lot for their hawks and blades, but I would still love to know what they pay for the Z Tuff and Z Wear. As best as I can figure, a hawk sized piece of Z Tuff would run you well over $200.
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I think it’s more economical to buy whole sheets directly from Zapp. Depending on the test results, I might be looking at buying a whole sheet of z-tuff and z-wear. It would last me years.
 
How big is a sheet of this stuff? I have seen all kinds of different sizes from the American, Austro-Swedish and German firms. IIRC, you see sheets from some German companies that are up to like 1 meter by 2 meters. I see other stuff that seems to top out as like .6 meters wide. With stuff like this, you really need to figure out how to salvage as much of the "waste" as you can, especially if you are cutting the steel up into odd shaped pieces like hawks.
Willie71 said:
I think it’s more economical to buy whole sheets directly from Zapp. Depending on the test results, I might be looking at buying a whole sheet of z-tuff and z-wear. It would last me years.
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jdm61 said:
How big is a sheet of this stuff? I have seen all kinds of different sizes from the American, Austro-Swedish and German firms. IIRC, you see sheets from some German companies that are up to like 1 meter by 2 meters. I see other stuff that seems to top out as like .6 meters wide. With stuff like this, you really need to figure out how to salvage as much of the "waste" as you can, especially if you are cutting the steel up into odd shaped pieces like hawks.
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You might want to message Kuraki. He looked into buying a sheet last year. I’m not sure of the size. I assumed about 1mx2m.
 
Kevin Cox said:
I buy mine directly from Zapp min order 300lb . Mine you in only using Zwear . Sheet size is 22/24x 42/48 . Just put 6 sheets on order
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Kevin, are you still using high temper, or have you switched to cryo/low temper?
 
I've been working with and heat treating S7 for almost 14 years. It is the toughest steel I ever used. As far as edge holding, it falls in between O1 and A2 at 58/59 rc. Of all the blades I've made in S7, never had a complaint about edge holding and it's easy to re-sharpen with minimal sharping tools. CPM 1V is one I've starting using this year and it's right up there with S7 as far as toughness but with a little better edge holding at 59/60rc.
Scott
 
What Kevin said. Zapp and Uddeholm are both more than willing to sell directly to us. Easier if you have a way to receive an LTL truck though.

IME even shipped, it's roughly half the price per pound direct than it is from our normal distributors.
 
Kevin Cox said:
kuraki kuraki yes shipping was way cheaper for me to. I live in the middle of nowhere here in Canada and shipping was 200.00 US for 350lb that’s like free to me.
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I’m in central/north Alberta, so I’d be in the same boat.

Thanks again on the recommendation for the VSM belts. Definite go to belt now on higher alloy steels.
 
Thats a lot of money considering the price of this stuff at a "retail" level!!!!! A hawk size piece at $100-125 makes something resembling sense compared to $250!!!:eek: So would that be like $1000-1100 a sheet for say 7mm stuff?
kuraki said:
What Kevin said. Zapp and Uddeholm are both more than willing to sell directly to us. Easier if you have a way to receive an LTL truck though.

IME even shipped, it's roughly half the price per pound direct than it is from our normal distributors.
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jdm61 said:
Thats a lot of money considering the price of this stuff at a "retail" level!!!!! A hawk size piece at $100-125 makes something resembling sense compared to $250!!!:eek: So would that be like $1000-1100 a sheet for say 7mm stuff?
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I don't know exactly as I never quoted Z Tuff and prices have been going up. When I got a Z Wear quote it was for .250 material at $19/lb. The sheet of Elmax I bought was $16/lb. Both are sold ~$36/lb retail.

Mind you i'm not criticizing retail pricing, I understand the opportunity cost of having cash tied up in stock as well as cutting and handling expense.

Just pointing out that if a guy intends to use a bunch of an alloy he can save a fairly significant amount of money provided he can process a large plate.

When you guys are calculating material costs it's really valuable to compare apples to apples, meaning boiling various dimensions down to weight and then dividing the price by the weight.

Length x width x thickness x 0.283 wil get you very close for steel.
 
Thanks. I calculated by extrapolating the "retail sizes" of stock out of 24 x 48 and then dividing by 2.........kinda. :p So closer to $1500 for a sheet of that Z Wear? With good nesting, that would still mean a hawk size hunk would be a lot closer to $125 than $250. Shorty bush sword for $75-100? Not bad.
kuraki said:
I don't know exactly as I never quoted Z Tuff and prices have been going up. When I got a Z Wear quote it was for .250 material at $19/lb. The sheet of Elmax I bought was $16/lb. Both are sold ~$36/lb retail.

Mind you i'm not criticizing retail pricing, I understand the opportunity cost of having cash tied up in stock as well as cutting and handling expense.

Just pointing out that if a guy intends to use a bunch of an alloy he can save a fairly significant amount of money provided he can process a large plate.

When you guys are calculating material costs it's really valuable to compare apples to apples, meaning boiling various dimensions down to weight and then dividing the price by the weight.

Length x width x thickness x 0.283 wil get you very close for steel.
Click to expand...
 
kuraki said:
I don't know exactly as I never quoted Z Tuff and prices have been going up. When I got a Z Wear quote it was for .250 material at $19/lb. The sheet of Elmax I bought was $16/lb. Both are sold ~$36/lb retail.

Mind you i'm not criticizing retail pricing, I understand the opportunity cost of having cash tied up in stock as well as cutting and handling expense.

Just pointing out that if a guy intends to use a bunch of an alloy he can save a fairly significant amount of money provided he can process a large plate.

When you guys are calculating material costs it's really valuable to compare apples to apples, meaning boiling various dimensions down to weight and then dividing the price by the weight.

Length x width x thickness x 0.283 wil get you very close for steel.
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Thank you for this. In Canada, I’ll be looking at $6000-10,000 for the steel, including shipping, duty, and exchange. Once our money is released from court, I’ll be making an order. Likely mid summer to fall.

It seems if someone has a few patterns that are frequently used, having sheets waterjet cut from full size stock is the most cost effective way to go.
 
jdm61 said:
Thanks. I calculated by extrapolating the "retail sizes" of stock out of 24 x 48 and then dividing by 2.........kinda. :p So closer to $1500 for a sheet of that Z Wear? With good nesting, that would still mean a hawk size hunk would be a lot closer to $125 than $250. Shorty bush sword for $75-100? Not bad.
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Don’t forget double to triple abrasive costs compared to 1084/W2, once you start grinding.
 
Warren, what grit do you start with on the VSMs?

I just did a FFG on a large 8” chef knife (0.070 M4 from Chuck) started with an 80 grit and wore it out before finishing.
 
kdnolin said:
Warren, what grit do you start with on the VSMs?

I just did a FFG on a large 8” chef knife (0.070 M4 from Chuck) started with an 80 grit and wore it out before finishing.
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I start with 60 grit if it’s hardened already, 36 grit if it’s still soft. I like the 36g blaze better than the 36g VSM. 60 and 120, I prefer the VSM. I find there’s a balance between pressure and speed. Too little pressure and the belt glazes. I also find large flat blades are more likely to glaze belts. Try a firm back support for the blade, and cit the bevel in on multiple different angles until you get close to final dimensions. Call me if you need an explanation of what I mean.

0.070” M4 will be an incredible slicer.
 
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