Quartermaster QRTMSTR Knife Company Allegations (if you have proof I would like to see it)

Matthew Gregory said:
What are you basing this statement on? Can you provide me with some sort of industry spec that states this, or is this am assumption on your part?
Click to expand...
Cutlery steel has specs for C content, some set by industry, some set by national organizations and other specs are set by manufacturers.
 
brownshoe said:
Cutlery steel has specs for C content, some set by industry, some set by national organizations and other specs are set by manufacturers.
Click to expand...

You may not know it, but I happen to make a knife or two, now and then. I‘m somewhat familiar with the importance of carbon in cutlery steel. I don’t think anyone hear is in denial of that. I’m asking where YOU concluded that an XRF spectrometer NEEDS to be able to read carbon content for it to be a viable tool for identifying steels like cutlery steel. Can you present me something to back this up?

I’ll give you a hint - it doesn’t. Industry, including the producers of cutlery steel, use them all the time, and the requirement of being able to perceive carbon isn’t necessary. It’s a handy and quick identification tool that places like foundries and rolling mills use to determine what something likely is. The results are usually highly accurate. It’s entirely likely that HIS results are acceptable. Of course, if you wanted to see the FULL chemistry, you could send out a sample for certs, but that absolutely doesn’t rule out the use of an XRF scanner the way you’re attempting to dismiss it.

Here‘s a personal example I have of one in use, where a collector graciously allowed me to finish a blank made by Jody Samson that I wanted to confirm the alloy of. The XRF scanner I had access to was done as a favor by my friend Bob, who happens to be the president of Niagara Specialty Metals. Perhaps you’ve heard of them - they’re the exclusive rolling mill for Crucible Steel, and this scanner is used by them for this exact purpose. Carefully note that the alloy is clearly listed as 440c, all without ever needing to know what the carbon content is.


2023091317463154-3020343428606963524--XL.jpg
 
Jraptor said:
I purchased a QM knife unaware of the controversy. I had hope the complaints were bogus till I saw this. It looks like a miniature from a Godzilla movie! The scale is totally off and it is obviously a scam if someone is saying this is some sort of manufacturing plant. The whole thing is probably less than 6ft tall!
Click to expand...
 
Matthew Gregory said:
You may not know it, but I happen to make a knife or two, now and then. I‘m somewhat familiar with the importance of carbon in cutlery steel. I don’t think anyone hear is in denial of that. I’m asking where YOU concluded that an XRF spectrometer NEEDS to be able to read carbon content for it to be a viable tool for identifying steels like cutlery steel. Can you present me something to back this up?

I’ll give you a hint - it doesn’t. Industry, including the producers of cutlery steel, use them all the time, and the requirement of being able to perceive carbon isn’t necessary. It’s a handy and quick identification tool that places like foundries and rolling mills use to determine what something likely is. The results are usually highly accurate. It’s entirely likely that HIS results are acceptable. Of course, if you wanted to see the FULL chemistry, you could send out a sample for certs, but that absolutely doesn’t rule out the use of an XRF scanner the way you’re attempting to dismiss it.

Here‘s a personal example I have of one in use, where a collector graciously allowed me to finish a blank made by Jody Samson that I wanted to confirm the alloy of. The XRF scanner I had access to was done as a favor by my friend Bob, who happens to be the president of Niagara Specialty Metals. Perhaps you’ve heard of them - they’re the exclusive rolling mill for Crucible Steel, and this scanner is used by them for this exact purpose. Carefully note that the alloy is clearly listed as 440c, all without ever needing to know what the carbon content is.


2023091317463154-3020343428606963524--XL.jpg
Click to expand...
I know you make knives. Part of what I do is I help people choose an appropriate analysis technique and to assess analytical results to assure the results meet the needs of the person using those results to make decisions.

The XRF compares its measurements to the partial set of elemental specs for 440C that it can quantitate. If the C was 0.5% it wouldn’t be 440C but that XRF won’t know it and will still tell you it is 440C. Since your analysis didn’t cover C did you really have sufficient data to decide it was 440C? Maybe, it depends upon how sure you need to be. C should be 0.9-1.2 in 440C per ASTM A276.

The XRF states V is 0.18, but there is no spec for V in 440c. I think some cutlers like V in their steel and would be happy to have it.

The Cr at 16.1 is just within the spec of 16-18. Do some cutlers like Cr to be on the high end of that range? For Cr with the 2std of the results being 0.3, there is an ~5% chance Cr could be as low as 15.7. To be sure 95% sure it meets spec, one would prefer the Cr to be 16.3.
 
brownshoe said:
I know you make knives. Part of what I do is I help people choose an appropriate analysis technique and to assess analytical results to assure the results meet the needs of the person using those results to make decisions.

The XRF compares its measurements to the partial set of elemental specs for 440C that it can quantitate. If the C was 0.5% it wouldn’t be 440C but that XRF won’t know it and will still tell you it is 440C. Since your analysis didn’t cover C did you really have sufficient data to decide it was 440C? Maybe, it depends upon how sure you need to be. C should be 0.9-1.2 in 440C per ASTM A276.

The XRF states V is 0.18, but there is no spec for V in 440c. I think some cutlers like V in their steel and would be happy to have it.

The Cr at 16.1 is just within the spec of 16-18. Do some cutlers like Cr to be on the high end of that range? For Cr with the 2std of the results being 0.3, there is an ~5% chance Cr could be as low as 15.7. To be sure 95% sure it meets spec, one would prefer the Cr to be 16.3.
Click to expand...

This is really a typical response from you - I was expecting similar. What you’re doing here is parsing fly shit from pepper. All of this comes down to probability. It’s the tidbit you’re ignoring so you can perpetuate an otherwise untenable position to somehow portray yourself as clever. I wasn’t really replying to this thread for you, because over the course of the years I’ve witnessed your constant need to wear the mantle of the contrarian. It’s pointless to bother applying reason with you, that much you‘ve gone out of your way to make evident. My post was to help others understand that your counter to the original poster’s observations were effectively groundless, given the context.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
This is really a typical response from you - I was expecting similar. What you’re doing here is parsing fly shit from pepper. All of this comes down to probability. It’s the tidbit you’re ignoring so you can perpetuate an otherwise untenable position to somehow portray yourself as clever. I wasn’t really replying to this thread for you, because over the course of the years I’ve witnessed your constant need to wear the mantle of the contrarian. It’s pointless to bother applying reason with you, that much you‘ve gone out of your way to make evident. My post was to help others understand that your counter to the original poster’s observations were effectively groundless, given the context.
Click to expand...
Thanks for keeping me humble.
 
What about chromium?
As we know D2 steel has let's say 12% of Cr but after tempering most of Cr goes to form Cr carbides so only 4 to 6% of Cr is left in solution.
Can XRF tester only detect free Cr in solution or can also detect Cr bond in carbides?
 
Moving back to topic….sort of…

When I was making my own guided system I somehow partially ‘copied’ KME design. I found almost the same clamps on eBay for $18 except those clamps are better. They have a screw in the middle so you can tighten them without a problem and the knife won’t move in the clamps no matter what you do.
Then I found this thread and start asking myself. I went to KME internet site and there is a statement all the parts are made in the USA. But there is only internet site and nothing else.
Searching Google I couldn’t find any photos of KME factory, facility or other object with machines to make those clamps, pivots, wooden handles and all other parts of KME sharpening system.

Also; if I look closely photos of those KME sharpening systems it seems to me those parts are made cheaply. The pivot is made of cheap plastic eye and thin metal sheet; clamps looks OK but the clamp holder is just cheap metal sheet bent in U shape with threaded rod in the middle. This peace of thin metal which holds plastic pivot is also nothing special-just a piece of thin metal sheet. I also couldn’t find any other information who is making those parts. Are all those parts made by one company or each part by other company? So, if I look those parts I would say they are made cheaply and not by US standards.
They say ‘Proudly made in USA’ or something. Hmmmm…...

There is also no innovation. Those sharpeners look the same from the start. They make no effort to improve anything. Just look how Work Sharp improved their system according to users wishes.
KME just add different files in the box and that’s it.

Yes; the system works and you can sharpen knives on KME system, but…. I can also sharpen knives on both my DIY systems.

So; what if those parts are not made in USA but in some other country? What if they import those parts and put them together in some garage or shed? What if they import assembled sharpeners and put them in US packages and call them American product? If this is true would such a product still be ‘proudly made in USA’?
Is there somewhere a proof those sharpeners are 100% US made or we just have a statement from their internet site ‘’proudly made in USA’’ exactly like Quartermaster did on his site?

Just wondering....
 
Matthew Gregory said:
This is really a typical response from you - I was expecting similar. What you’re doing here is parsing fly shit from pepper. All of this comes down to probability. It’s the tidbit you’re ignoring so you can perpetuate an otherwise untenable position to somehow portray yourself as clever. I wasn’t really replying to this thread for you, because over the course of the years I’ve witnessed your constant need to wear the mantle of the contrarian. It’s pointless to bother applying reason with you, that much you‘ve gone out of your way to make evident. My post was to help others understand that your counter to the original poster’s observations were effectively groundless, given the context.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but...Matt...do you support the site with YOUR MIND? That's the question we all seek the answer to.

☺️ 🍻
 
Blues said:
Yeah, but...Matt...do you support the site with YOUR MIND? That's the question we all seek the answer to.

☺️ 🍻
Click to expand...
…I don’t think anyone would claim I’m unwilling to engage in vigorous discussion, but I think most that know me understand I can recognize when there’s value in such engagement, and when there isn’t.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
This is really a typical response from you - I was expecting similar. What you’re doing here is parsing fly shit from pepper. All of this comes down to probability. It’s the tidbit you’re ignoring so you can perpetuate an otherwise untenable position to somehow portray yourself as clever. I wasn’t really replying to this thread for you, because over the course of the years I’ve witnessed your constant need to wear the mantle of the contrarian. It’s pointless to bother applying reason with you, that much you‘ve gone out of your way to make evident. My post was to help others understand that your counter to the original poster’s observations were effectively groundless, given the context.
Click to expand...

I scanned brownshoe's forehead with an XRF gun and results came back Negative for the element Carbon.
 
katanas said:
WOW, if you lie, you lie; nothing complicated about that. :rolleyes: A LITTLE white lie ("Honey your pepperoni fish is very good-considering you spent five hours making it-dear") is one thing, but, THIS stuff. :poop: Buy what and where you wish with your own money, but I (amongst many others) am grateful for the info on certain sellers/manufactures/businesses engaging in shady practices which I would otherwise not know about. Thanks BF and members who share info (though I don't always agree, as is the prerogative of all). :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
One thing I'm learning on here it's which companies are shady. I been on other knife forums and they never talk about this stuff. I always thought Quartermaster was a good brand, guess not. Thanks for saving me money.
 
Jraptor said:
I purchased a QM knife unaware of the controversy. I had hope the complaints were bogus till I saw this. It looks like a miniature from a Godzilla movie! The scale is totally off and it is obviously a scam if someone is saying this is some sort of manufacturing plant. The whole thing is probably less than 6ft tall!
Click to expand...
Lol it looks like a cardboard box somebody painted. Look at what they call a foundation.
 
DapperDon said:
One thing I'm learning on here it's which companies are shady. I been on other knife forums and they never talk about this stuff. I always thought Quartermaster was a good brand, guess not. Thanks for saving me money.
Click to expand...

It's spelled QTRM5TR, sir.
 
brownshoe said:
If your XRF can’t ”read” C, it’s not the right tool for cutlery where C and its concentration are very important.
Click to expand...
Olympus makes XRF readers in 2 varieties. Ones than *can* read light elements and ones that *can’t*. I use mine for identifying precious metals, which are heavy (gold, silver, copper, platinum), so I went with the cheaper *can’t* version. I use it to identify steels because even without Si and C you can still identify the grade of virtually every steel out there based on other elements.

But the more expensive XRF reader which *can* read Si and C is better. And again, I don’t know if a better tool for the job.
 
Mecha said:
I scanned brownshoe's forehead with an XRF gun and results came back Negative for the element Carbon.
Click to expand...
Holy crap, I know this is a joke, but PSA never point an XRF scanner at someone when it’s reading! It’s much more powerful than a typical XRay machine and could likely give you cancer.
 
ICP-MS

Send it to an accredited lab that does metals analysis regularly, and has the right standards available in inventory

Not non-destructive, but good, reliable numbers with low limits (LOD / LOQ)

We use ICP looking for contaminants in reactor fuel and components, so it should be plenty good for pocket knife steel...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top