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Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

NCCNC said:
It looks though that they are having WAY too many seconds for sale. I manage a machine shop that deals primarily in small batch tight tolerance work. If all of the knives there have sold over the years as seconds have been the product of poor machining or workmanship, they would have already gone under. Typically a bad run of parts will yield roughly 1-3 "seconds" per hundred. If they have 30 "seconds" available, you can see that they should have hundreds of first rate knives complete. "Seconds" are sold to try to generate cash which they don't have, also in an attempt to not post of customers who have waited years on their "perfect" knife. It's just another kind of scam.
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Bingo. Just another scam to generate fast cash. This bogus crap keeps repeating itself over and over.
 
I still think of them as the “Bonnie & Clyde” of our knife enthusiast culture. I don’t trust anything that they say or do.
If they don’t stop all of the scamming, and immediately fulfill all of the back orders, I hope that they lose all customer support.
 
Jondllas311 said:
Before you place your order, please remember that this is a Preorder. The knives will be starting production next month, they do not exist yet. There is no guaranteed completion date. These orders will be fulfilled after previously placed GSO-4.5 orders. Also know that we do have an existing backlog that we are currently working our way through, which includes several models that are ahead of the GSO-4.5. DO NOT place your preorder with any expectation of a specific delivery date.
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.....and I presume that they want full payment up front ? Not a nominal $1-10 place holding deposit ? If they want the $s now it is indicative (not definitive of course) that the cash flow (lack thereof) issue is biting. If not, and you still had all those pre-payments in the bank to fund those knives already paid for, you would get much closer to being caught up and your reputation in a better place (ie "We had a crappy few years but here we are caught up and if you order NOW your knife WILL be delivered withing 3 weeks" or similar). But no...we need $s now and you will give them to us on the basis that sometime down the road, maybe two or three years, we will maybe send you a knife....or it may be four years...we really can't be sure.....

Are the buying public this stupid ? Will there be a large enough influx of new "pre-orders" to save them till the merchant finally wants his pound of flesh again ?
 
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Well now that they are gone here they only have Facebook, Instagram, and their website to promote on. So suckering new customers will get a lot easier for them since they can censor all comments made on those platforms. This company is a scam nothing more the owners know what they are doing and are ok with it. The best thing we can do here is keep reviving their name to keep thier true colors top of page on google. It’s a shame but one day people will hit up their website or call their shop and it will all be gone like a fart in the wind. Happy to see that they and their groupies were shut down here.
 
gonebad395 said:
Happy to see that they and their groupies were shut down here.
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Haha. I remember 3 to 4 years ago wanting a SK and quicklt realizing after reading their website for 3 mins that they are scammers.

Nothing has ever made sense with there production or whatnot.

I and many other got chewed out for questioning some logical questions. Honestly the fuck boy fan boys are the ones that ennabled it to get out of control.
I had made a chopper and was using it and posted some pics on the IG and a fan boy accused me of coping the gso12. A drawing that was not even made. Or even posted untill months after i was cutting down trees. Those fanboys are as much to blame.
I do owe it to SK for me starting to make knives. Amazing I drew, machined and finished my first 3V knife in 2 montha start to finish....
 
NCCNC said:
It looks though that they are having WAY too many seconds for sale. I manage a machine shop that deals primarily in small batch tight tolerance work. If all of the knives there have sold over the years as seconds have been the product of poor machining or workmanship, they would have already gone under. Typically a bad run of parts will yield roughly 1-3 "seconds" per hundred. If they have 30 "seconds" available, you can see that they should have hundreds of first rate knives complete. "Seconds" are sold to try to generate cash which they don't have, also in an attempt to not post of customers who have waited years on their "perfect" knife. It's just another kind of scam.
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exactly what I was thinking. in my business scratch and dent from poor handling equipment is a very small percentage of first rate. otherwise manuf, distr. and dealers would be out of business.

I think it's a scam too. seems the amount of the 2nds they sell are just their normal knives. sold as seconds sure seems made up. as where are the firsts the flawed seconds came from? pretty rotten as no one can complain on flaws and poor quality, if they bought it as a second. seems people waiting on firsts are funding the making of "seconds"/ normal knives. obviously Im speculating without any first hand knowledge, but I do know something stinks very badly here.

I feel bad for those being duped, but their grown folks so if they are okay with.....so be it.
 
As bad as the 2nds conspiracy theory is Optically, the most egregious thing I have yet seen is the recent adding a 13 th MODEL (GSO 4.5) behind...
4.1,7/7,4limited,3.5,SK-3.5,GSO-12,SK-12,GSO-6,SK-6,GSO-10,GSO-8,GSO-5.1.
When SK said they they would NOT be adding new preorders until their backlog was cleared.
Just think about that for a second, now 13 distinct prepaid models not even counting all the 2nds, 100% pay up front type models not delivered when they are only able to complete 1~2 models a year. Do the math...
The most egregious part, though is this,
" The GSO-4.5 is about to begin production. "
That right there IMO is the smoking gun proof that SK is actively and knowingly running a Ponzi Fraud Scheme. Someone new, would not know that SK counts just ordering parts as part of their "production" and they start the claim of "production" the moment they just order the raw materials or cutting out some blanks and leaving on a shelf indefinably. Their wording is and has been beyond a shadow of a doubt deceptive. Their "finishing stages" alone can drag on for over a year on particular model. Also, while they claim they don't provide delivery dates, they do claim "check production schedule for estimation of completion dates". By their own verbiage and claim, they refer to their production schedule as a consumer guide for completion dates. That means by law, if their "production schedule" shows sign of deception.. THEY are showing deception. A 1rst year prosecutor would eat them alive right there for offering an estimation of completion date that can EASILY be shown to be deceptive. WHY a prosecutor has not taken this on is beyond me.. probably overbooked with too many other cases.

Speaking of reputation, lets see how the BBB, Better Business Bureau rates Suvive knives.
https://www.bbb.org/us/id/kellogg/profile/custom-knives/survive-knives-1296-1000035317
Per BBB...
============================================
BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU
Alert
Pattern of Complaint
On July 18, 2018, BBB recognized a pattern of complaints from consumers regarding delivery schedule. Consumers allege they order and pay for products from Survive! Knives’ online store, and after several years they have not received their products. On July 18, 2018, BBB notified the company of the complaint patter. To date, the company has not responded to BBB's request to address the pattern.
=============================================
 
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mlmcasual said:
As bad as the 2nds conspiracy theory is Optically, the most egregious thing I have yet seen is the recent adding a 13 th MODEL (GSO 4.5) behind...
4.1,7/7,4limited,3.5,SK-3.5,GSO-12,SK-12,GSO-6,SK-6,GSO-10,GSO-8,GSO-5.1.
When SK said they they would NOT be adding new preorders until their backlog was cleared.
Just think about that for a second, now 13 distinct prepaid models not even counting all the 2nds, 100% pay up front type models not delivered when they are only able to complete 1~2 models a year. Do the math...
The most egregious part, though is this,
" The GSO-4.5 is about to begin production. "
That right there IMO is the smoking gun proof that SK is actively and knowingly running a Ponzi Fraud Scheme. Someone new, would not know that SK counts just ordering parts as part of their "production" and they start the claim of "production" the moment they just order the raw materials or cutting out some blanks and leaving on a shelf indefinably. Their wording is and has been beyond a shadow of a doubt deceptive. Their "finishing stages" alone can drag on for over a year on particular model. Also, while they claim they don't provide delivery dates, they do claim "check production schedule for estimation of completion dates". By their own verbiage and claim, they refer to their production schedule as a consumer guide for completion dates. That means by law, if their "production schedule" shows sign of deception.. THEY are showing deception. A 1rst year prosecutor would eat them alive right there for offering an estimation of completion date that can EASILY be shown to be deceptive. WHY a prosecutor has not taken this on is beyond me.. probably overbooked with too many other cases.

Speaking of reputation, lets see how the BBB, Better Business Bureau rates Suvive knives.
https://www.bbb.org/us/id/kellogg/profile/custom-knives/survive-knives-1296-1000035317
Per BBB...
============================================
BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU
Alert
Pattern of Complaint
On July 18, 2018, BBB recognized a pattern of complaints from consumers regarding delivery schedule. Consumers allege they order and pay for products from Survive! Knives’ online store, and after several years they have not received their products. On July 18, 2018, BBB notified the company of the complaint patter. To date, the company has not responded to BBB's request to address the pattern.
=============================================
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And good God, they have 23 CUSTOM OPTIONS for this knife. Surely with the mountain of problems these guys have had, wouldn't they want to keep any run as simple as possible??
 
starting work on these next month !! "no guarantee of completion date" so don't bug us three years from now when you still don't have the knife ok?

Mind boggling. join the pre-order and put some cash down and join the Survive family please?
 
JJ_Colt45 said:
The biggest problem I see with this is ... how do you know a knife is a 2nd or a blem. until the knife is produced?

I understand selling off an odd blade with an issue at a bargin cost ... but if you have yet to produce the knife how do you sell an unknown quanity of blemished knives and say after we have your orders the knives will be made?

You can say we have 17 knives up for sale today that have minor defects ... or at the end of each month offer a sale of whatever knives were not up to par that month ... but how do you take preorders for blemished products that aren't produced yet? ... Intentionally scratch a blade? Mismatch scales on purpose? ... makes no sense to me.

Anyone else see any issue with this simple question?
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I can confirm. I have a second and don’t really understand why it wasn’t sent as a 1st. I bought it before I knew everything that was going on with them. Received it after about 8 or so months. It’s a great knife, but I’d never order from them again.
 
I want to point out some good things, I could name a couple but the recent 4.5 announcement....jeez.
A year has gone by without orders and there is are almost 4 year old orders. Wasn't the 7/7 named in honor of deceased friend? Some honor after 3 years.

Who was the guy ridiculed or banned off the forum a couple years ago, I forget? He kept saying the same things many have said lately. Herd mentality runs deep.
 
BBuser said:
I want to point out some good things, I could name a couple but the recent 4.5 announcement....jeez.
A year has gone by without orders and there is are almost 4 year old orders. Wasn't the 7/7 named in honor of deceased friend? Some honor after 3 years.

Who was the guy ridiculed or banned off the forum a couple years ago, I forget? He kept saying the same things many have said lately. Herd mentality runs deep.
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Banned for repeatedly interrupting threads in the Survive Forum. Banned again for sneaking back in. Had he posted in the correct forum, he would have been OK. It's not just what you say. It's how you say it and where you say it.
 
bikerector said:
I'm not advocating for the company because I have no skin in the game but wouldn't factory 2nds make sense to be available despite not fulfilling orders for customers because they are essentially failed attempts at making "1sts" and thus shouldn't be sent to the customers expecting a "1st" quality of production? It just seems like the 2nds would be sitting around doing nothing otherwise since they shouldn't be going to the regular customer so why not sell them. Unless I'm not understanding the situation correctly.
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Don't be fooled by that scammer and the shield he hides behind. There are no such things as "seconds". The proof of this is staggering. People posted up for YEARS in their sub about how they ordered a second, and waited for many months, or even more than a year, and when they would ask where their knife was, they were told "It's being finished soon! Guy just needs to finish the edge, or the scales need to be attached, or, or, or....etc.".

[Insert record scratch noise here]

Wait, what? A second is usually an item that has already been finished but that has some sort of cosmetic damage. To Survive?K, a "Second" is a subset of a given batch of products that they can re-sell in order to double dip, because with their screwjob wait-times and (for years) completely docile fanbase eating up every excuse like candy, they knew they were able to simply add some more of that knife design to a future batch, and thus get the knives to the say, forty or fifty or whatever people whose knives got redirected to other orders as "seconds" at a later time. They'd get in an order from their machinist (the people actually making stuff, because S?K doesn't actually even make anything LOL) and it's clear that they'd be like "Ok, out of these 250 blades, these 40 are now "seconds". Ellie, go sell these to our apologists on the forum."

These people are garbage, and their company is garbage. I really don't know how they have any fans left at all. Their knives aren't even that great.
 
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bikerector said:
I'm not advocating for the company because I have no skin in the game but wouldn't factory 2nds make sense to be available despite not fulfilling orders for customers because they are essentially failed attempts at making "1sts" and thus shouldn't be sent to the customers expecting a "1st" quality of production? It just seems like the 2nds would be sitting around doing nothing otherwise since they shouldn't be going to the regular customer so why not sell them. Unless I'm not understanding the situation correctly.
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bikerector said:
I see your point here, so you're saying if they mess up and a 2nd is made, like a scratched blade or something happens, they should simply set it to the side as WIP and start on a new knife.

Maybe I don't understand the process, you wouldn't start out at the beginning of production with the idea that a 2nd is what you're trying to make would you? Like there's a handful of scratched blades in the bin and you decide to put handles on those instead of going after the 1sts.

I guess I'm all about holding them accountable for being butt holes but it seems like if a 2nd is made from out-of-spec production of what was intended to be a 1st then I don't see the problem and think they absolutely should get rid of them if the money could speed up the process of getting orders filled. Crucify them for what they actually sucked at, not for trying to liquidate the blemished stuff which has no actual impact on fulfilling orders. But, I may not understand their operations correctly. In the operations I've worked in, QA deviations would be discounted, given away, or disposed of and all of those actions would have no impact on getting more good product out the door. It's basically sunk costs.

Probably a moot point, I won't be buying any or supporting the company. I don't even look at the knives on the 2nd hand market because it seems like a tainted knife and there are too many good options to bother with sketch-ball knives. I was just curious on how selling 2nds was perceived as a deceitful move vs. actually being a good business move from my very limited knowledge of the situation.
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I haven't read through all the responses to your post so perhaps this point was made. Survive sells seconds before they are made. It's a scam maneuver to get cash flow. Most folks report not being able to tell what is issue is that makes a knife a second. They sell knives already paid for 3 years ago to new customers, still taking a year to deliver "seconds". Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
 
craytab said:
I haven't read through all the responses to your post so perhaps this point was made. Survive sells seconds before they are made. It's a scam maneuver to get cash flow. Most folks report not being able to tell what is issue is that makes a knife a second. They sell knives already paid for 3 years ago to new customers, still taking a year to deliver "seconds". Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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Others kind of said similar. They're not doing the traditional idea of what 2nds are, selling what failed to be good enough for a 1st, but are actually making others to generate revenue. It's all very shady I was just trying to figure out what the problem with selling of "fails" to help push out 1sts was but it's not that simple because they're not running with regular production methods it seems, like scheduling 2nds (if I understand that right) where 2nds should be the result of scheduled 1sts that didn't make the grade like gaps, scratches, or wierd blade grinds that are functional but not up to snuff.

The mis-representation of what a 2nd is, is what I think was where I was getting caught up because it's not a true 2nd as others would call it. It's not that people disagree with selling the blems it's that, that isn't actually what they are doing at all. Helps put into perspective the level of shadiness the company operates with.
 
They buy the bar stock material in batches. One theory would be if they didn't sell all the stock, they would just designate all the remaining stock as "seconds". However, that theory gets shot down because we usually seen "firsts" get sold out... So many believe seconds are some form of double dipping. What I don't understand, if that was true (and I am not saying it isn't), why wouldn't Guy just purposefully scratch or create a flaw just to cover his ass?
 
mlmcasual said:
They buy the bar stock material in batches. One theory would be if they didn't sell all the stock, they would just designate all the remaining stock as "seconds". However, that theory gets shot down because we usually seen "firsts" get sold out... So many believe seconds are some form of double dipping. What I don't understand, if that was true (and I am not saying it isn't), why wouldn't Guy just purposefully scratch or create a flaw just to cover his ass?
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It strokes his ego if the fanboys think his seconds are so good you can't tell.

Isn't this double dipping fraud? On the books it looks like two sales but they are only using the new money coming in to produce. I know they aren't publicly traded but we know of at least one investor, though he did defend them publicly even after they couldn't pay back the loan. That guy should be taking legal action.
 
Are they calling this the last chance presale because it's the last one they're doing before they move again and disappear. One last money grab? Millit should not only be embarrassed to be dealing with survive but also being figuring out a way to get out of any association immediately. These people are lying thieves.
 
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