I see your sincere desire for imformation transpatency, reminds of a character this community that I respect.Hi, first of all I wish you success in your tests Mr Busse, and greatly appreciate that this thread was opened for replies and feedback. I have also been wondering what you intend to do if the results of your tests on infi's durability in knife making applications reveal it to be a fair bit lower than that of modern toughness oriented pm steels commonly used in the same applications. (As I unfortunately suspect may be the case). I was not aware until today just how long the
Infi = ≠ a8 mod debate had been going on, and that you had participated in it since at least 2006. Your comments in post #51 of this thread: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/whats-the-deal-with-busses-infi-steel.385855/page-3#post-3520503
Make me think that you would agree with what I have to say in my conclusion.
Specifically these parts 1:
"Larrin,
There are MANY steels that are within a few tenths of a percentage of another grade of steel and yet they have earned their own specific grade designation.
Looking at the composition of a steel and making statements about its edge holding and other performance characteristics is like reading a recipe and telling people how something is going to taste. . . it's pretty far out." Larrin does not directly address the claims on steel grade designations in this thread idk why it makes him look ignorant perhaps he wasn't as knowledgeable in 2006. He does however address a very similar point in this 2018 thread: post #53 (I will not quote it as it is very long.) Here is the link: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-composition-of-infi-and-what-it-means.1619871/page-3
Another claim you used to explain that infi ≠ a8 mod in the same thread was this:
"I don't really care what the composition of a steel is. . . I only care about its proven performance. So, with that in mind, could you please direct me to ANY "live" demonstration where anybody, anywhere at any time has come close to duplicating our performance???. . .or better yet, direct me to where someone has at least had the cajones to try?
Anybody. . . .anywhere. . . .at any time? " I think joex's video counts as a live demonstration where multiple blades have not only duplicated but surpassed (by a decent margin) Busse knives in terms durability and withstanding abuse.(I agree his tests do not control for many important variables, are not repeatable and leave much to be desired for gathering useful, accurate imperical evidence and info, so I am glad you are conducting your own.) I am also aware your quote was more so in reference to edge retention but I assumed it applies to every aspect of the performance of your knives. Perhaps I was wrong? In reference to edge retention Cedric ada outdoors made a vid where he does rope cut test with a busse knife (granted one with very thick blade and edge geometry the latter being more relevant to rope test) I watched it long ago so I am not 100% but I think he says it performs similar to 52100 knife with similar geo and a similar 3v knife would far outperform the Busse knife in his opinion(he is not a knife maker so take this with a grain of salt also it is by far my weakest point but it is pretty much all I know about infi edge retention) I could not find footage of live demonstration where infi makes 3000 rope cuts. Here is tldr: I think some of your claims about infi's superiority might have been true long ago, but are outdated in 2024 with whatever gen of pm metallurgy we are at. I think most of the points you have made in defense of infi's superiority have since received adequate rebuttals now the ball is in your park with one last chance to prove your claims are true (about infi).So my conclusion that I hope you agree is this: first make your tests as rigorous and thorough as possible, (so there is no question about their results) and within a reasonable time frame so that you are unaccusable stalling /waiting for the heat to die down, and if the results Cannot prove these claims on your site: ". INFI represents what we have always dreamed of in a knife steel. Tougher, by an enormous margin, than any other steel we've ever tested. It has unparalleled edge holding under high impact and in cutting tests, and shock resistance that begs you to "bring it on". Please take them down and issue some form of apology to your customers. Also perhaps revealing the composition of infi may be a good idea as to 90% of the public proprietary secrets that they as customers aren't allowed to know is a red flag. Would you like to buy a car with engine parts whose function that affects its reliability and may cause it to breakdown is hidden from you because it's a proprietary secret? How is it any different with knives?
Ps. Some of this may come of as arrogant or me trying to hurt your business which I assure you is not the case. All I want is for people to know what they are buying to insure they get what they want. Also steel is not even close to being most important aspect of knives and even if infi performs similar to a8 mod that still seems like a pretty decent steel just not the best. I would def still consider buying your knives for some of their other properties (of which their seems many) that set them apart from the competition. Also your quotes I used here are from 2006 I am sure you have come a long way since then as a knife maker (the whole industry has) and perhaps have already addressed some of the things I am saying or are willing to know. I def do not know all of the lore/history of the infi debate not even as it pertains to this forum so anyone is free to correct me.
One thing to remind, it is not like PM=superior, it is just one of many steel production methods with certain advantages.
E.G. CPM-Magnacut with ultra-fine grain structure advertised is still 5 times as large as AEB-L in terms of average carbide size, an ingot steel.
