13C26 Razor Blade Steel -- a Kershaw Junkyard Dog II Review

Received my own JY II today (had the day off) and really do like it. Blade geometry is very good, much better than the usual "tactical" folder fair, and while I have nothing against assisted openers, the unassisted-assisted opener (or "flicker" as I'd call it) on this knife is very easy to use, and I can see how it'd be a nice alternative, due both to its simplicity--the more complicated a mechanism is, the more that can go wrong--and since AOs have been lumped in with switch blades as illegal in some places.

Hangle ergonomics are very good, much better than I honestly thought they would be. The hand is definitely encouraged to be in pretty much one position, but it puts the edge at a nice angle to your wrist that would make long term cutting fairly comfortable I would think. Lockup is solid, and there is lots of room for the liner lock to wear in, I don't think it's even half-way covering the thickness of the ricasso where it currently sits. Haven't used it for anything yet, but my initial impressions are quite good.

EXCEPT for the pocket clip. I didn't think I'd care for it based upon the pictures and boy was I ever right. I carry knives of this size behind my right hip in my waistband, as it's comfortable both sitting and standing and I also don't have to get around the knife to get to my keys in my pocket. With the "ears" on the sides of this clip, my belt was being pushed out into a very odd and noticeable shape, not to mention that it needed to be loosened up a notch to be really comfortable. Plus, squeezing slightly hard with my index finger like I would if I were trying to carve something, strip a wire or do anything involving some precision, the bottom point pushed into the underside of my fingerjoint...this just wasn't going to work. Plus, I'm sorry, it just looked slightly garrish to me.

Well, I didn't have a torque wrench small enough to remove the clip, so I just stuck a shim under it to hold it away from the handle and give me room to work, and was able to pull the ears off and shorten the AOL a bit to give a more rounded, subdued appearance. Most importantly, it's one hell of a lot more comfortable IWB and in my hand. Left just enough out on the end to have a lip up, and it still slides over jean-thickness material very easily, but doesn't hang down so low. In fact, with a medium-wide belt, the clip almost completely disappears now. I left just enough of the old contours to make it look like the clip was built to match the lines of the knife, but may end up smoothing all transitions and just having it entirely straight--although I don't have any more room on the end.

http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s115/t1mpani/?action=view&current=IMG_0162.jpg

Anyway, I'm happy with it :)

Warren
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi STeve,

I've sent him a few over the years, but he's commented on (and destroyed) far more of our knives than he's gotten from me, so he must be getting them somewhere else. My guess is, he's buying them.

He tends to be hard on them, destructive testing and all, but I believe he's honest in his opinions.
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Thanks for the response, Sal.

Let's just take a look at that. You have sent Cliff a few knives over the years. Obviously Cliff buys some knives, as do STR, and Thom Brogan.

When you gave Cliff knives, did you ask him to keep anything on the downlow, until you had worked out some bugs? This is of course, presupposing production had not yet started.

I don't necessarily think that Cliff is being dishonest in his opinions, but do you think that he has some sort of hidden agenda, with the way he has slung mud at Thomas?

Do you condone this behavior?

I know how you feel about my ways, and the rest of you should know that I have known Sal for over 14 years, and while we have some serious differences of opinion, I have ALWAYS respected and admired him, he is a great man.

It was through Sal, that I met Thomas, at the OKCA knife show, Thomas worked for Sal back then.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hey DOW,

"I wish more people, and of course manufacturers, would start running straight-forward, quantified tests of edge retention and other aspects of cutting performance and providing us with the results. Since most anybody can reproduce the work when the test piece is a readily-available production knife, the accuracy of what's reported and claimed can be easily tested".

I believe that we, as a manufacturer, have been quite honest and forthright in providing information on our tests. Both strength and edge retention. However, "most anybody" would have a difficult time verifying accuracy without the testing equipment.

sal
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Yes, I think you set a very high standard for the industry, Sal. It's always seemed to me there's a lot of transparency with Spyderco, which in and of itself probably says a lot about your products, how they're engineered and manufactured.

Figuring I may not be the only steel junky here on BFC who has yet to buy his own CATRA equipment ;) I still think Spyderco makes it pretty clear what people should and shouldn't expect in terms of relative performance ... and that, the average guy should be able to test for himself, even if a little more crudely.
 
Hey even crudely run tests have a lot of value. In fact just a simple honest opinion on a knife with no so-called testing I sometimes find the most valuable. In fact some of the so-called scientific tests are pretty misleading.
Sal you’re a stand up guy. There is nothing wrong with sending someone a knife in fact I think it can be a very smart business decision to do so. I do think that 99 % of all reviews and reviewers do try to be as honest as they can be.
 
What's this thread about again? Oh ya the JYD!

I have to say I like it... I like the flat grind and shape of the blade.
Can you believe this came from a 24 y.o.? He is going
to have a bright future in the industry.

Anyone get a chance to do some more testing over a broader
array of materials pitting it against a higher end steel like S30V?
 
Kohai999 said:
Thanks for the response, Sal.

Let's just take a look at that. You have sent Cliff a few knives over the years. Obviously Cliff buys some knives, as do STR, and Thom Brogan.

When you gave Cliff knives, did you ask him to keep anything on the downlow, until you had worked out some bugs? This is of course, presupposing production had not yet started.

I don't necessarily think that Cliff is being dishonest in his opinions, but do you think that he has some sort of hidden agenda, with the way he has slung mud at Thomas?

Do you condone this behavior?

I know how you feel about my ways, and the rest of you should know that I have known Sal for over 14 years, and while we have some serious differences of opinion, I have ALWAYS respected and admired him, he is a great man.

It was through Sal, that I met Thomas, at the OKCA knife show, Thomas worked for Sal back then.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Hi STeve,

When I sent (and plan to in the future) Cliff knives, there were no comments on what he should do or not do with them. His input was valuable in our improving some models in the past, so there were no "conditions". They were all production pieces except for some pre production Guntings where we were looking for lock input.

I have no opinions on how Cliff chooses to communicate. Not my place.

Thanx for the kind words.

Hi DOW,

point taken.

sal
 
Everyone should keep in mind that the field testers looked at the knvies as a whole. Not just the blade.

Thomas got feedback about all aspects of the knives. I know I focused a lot on the handle, the lock ups, detents, flipper actions, thumb studs placements and textures, grip textures, the way the grips were for form and fit, the clips, all kinds of sub details including fit and finish, handle choices, stop and the blade all going into the make up that come together as the whole system (or don't in my mind as the case may be from one to another)

I tried to evaluate it as professionally as I could for a backyard knife mechanic like myself and give him the most unbiased feedback from a EDC use perspective as I could provide him.

Maybe its up to the level some like maybe not. As I said all I can do is add to my eval anything that stands out to me looking at the knife the same way I evaluate one before deciding if it is a keeper or one I don't really care for.

I doubt expert opinions are any less biased than anyone elses. Credentials don't mean crap in the real world and facts on paper don't always end up the way it really is once its in a human hand much the same way a CATRA testing machine can't duplicate what the hand does. In other words the machines are nice but when you are making a product for people you need people to use them and let you know how you did and take what is said to proceed.

STR
 
Hopefully the image link above is working now.

Please keep in mind, I did not say categorically that I believed the clip design to be "bad" or anything like that, merely that for my hand and method of carry, it was not optimized. Every single person who picks this or any other tool up will always have different opinions. I mention this in reference to a PM I received, not to any of the posts above. :)
 
Kohai999 said:
Too bad that your sentence structure, spelling and punctuation were never subject to the same level of "rigerous" scrutiny.
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Ahh, the spell checker, I was wondering when that defence would be used.

Does Spyderco supply you with product, free of charge? Are there any restrictions on what you can do with the product? Does Busse suppy you with knives at no cost?
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I have recieved knives to review from many companies, all are returned, even if destroyed at my cost. Plus I pay taxes and import duties on them and I have to pay for the stock materials I use in the work. It costs me far more to review a knife than the cost of the knife.

It would be cheaper if I just bought them (in which case I also get to keep them), in some cases by a lot. If the manufacturer states explicitly that the knife is not to be returned then I send it out on extended passarounds, again at my expense.

No Spyderco nor Busse place and restrictions on what I say about the knives, and if they did I would refuse to review them. But they would never do that and if you knew them at all you would never even ask.

Sometimes makers will say what the knives are not to be used for, Dozier for example specifically said his are made to cut not pry and hack (hard objects), but they don't restrict me doing it, I generally do it anyway to be complete at least once.

What "high level and very experienced individuals"?
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Landes, Cashen, Fredrick, etc., all extensive knowledge of knives, performance and steel with actual data to support their statements. Again, people who argue with logic and facts, and yes, we disagree there and no it never gets personal because they, like I, am interested in the truth. Note they disagree with each other as well, Roman and Fredrick for example about heatreatment.

A salesman may not be an UNBIASED source of information, but they ARE a source of information, maybe not to be discounted so readily.
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Information by defination contacts facts, as opposed to misinformation. So again, no. Information which is heavily biased actually ceases to be factual unless the bias is clearly stated which then allows the baseline to be extrapolated. Of course most makers realize that they are not to be seen as a source of unbiased information about their knives, Bill Martino was strongly public about it and would frankly things like, "I sell them, what do you think I am going to say." ask someone else. Of course any sensible person thinks like that. You just use a salesmen to find out the questions you need to ask and of course you CONFIRM all the data and request warrenty/written documentation, etc. . So your new steel is a 50% improvement over the old one - interesting, do you have any data to support that - what ways exactly. Oh it came from the people who work for you and was never independently confirmed and we can't know the details. Thanks.

Busse and Glesser OWN the damn companies...
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That is irrelevant, Busse has representatives which act very similar to him, the same easy going style. If what they say is refuted they will generally just as Busse to step in and comment, they don't resort to ad hominen arguements and attempt to drown out facts with mud slinging. Why you would excuse a representative for lying and spreading misinformation because he doesn't own the company is fairly interesting.

STR said:
When people post such things as have been said here in response to the way you come across to them in your posts it should be a wake up call if nothing else because it most certainly is you Cliff they are referring to.
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Again STR, you ignore that the common demoninator is not me. Here is a simple question, how come on forums like HI this never happens. People talk about performance all the time and I am involved but it never gets personal. Maybe because they don't spread lies and misinformation. On another note, notice when someone actually brings up FACTS about knives I immediately switch to discussing again knives, but you keep ignoring the factual discussion all the refutation provided and focus on the personal.

Something like that people that feel that bad or are that sensitive should probably not ask you? Well, consider this. No one asked you here.
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Yes I was invited here, long before your time, and no I never said what you attributed me to, again. What the first point has to do with anything is again beyond me, as you noted it is a public forum which by defination means open invitation.

FlyingMuskrat said:
If a steels characteristics* were precisely quantified, through a range of HRC points, would/should the characteristics vary linearly?
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Some things are very linear (like compressive strength), some things are HIGHLY nonlinear like toughness and corrosion resistance. I have examples of graphs on the website. Wear resistance is linear in some steels but can be peaked in others, those with secondary hardening for example. If you want specific examples just ask.

-Cliff
 
Just to clarify a somewhat misleading statement. When Bladeforums started almost everyone that was active at knifeforums was invited to come hear. Even a dope like me.However, I don’t think being invited or not is STR’s point. This is what happens when you cherry pick a part of a post and ignore the rest of it and it’s meaning.
 
Yeah. I put that up and its a bit misleading and not exactly what I was trying to convey. So is the comment about his forum side manner sucking. It doesn't suck all the time. Sometimes he can actuallly be pretty decent. So my apologies on that err. Its just when he gets harsh as all get out that I feel its unwarranted. Obvioulsy he is free to post here like we all are. I just don't feel like people come here to be dealt with that way and certainly don't feel like they ask for it just by posting comments. My biggest gripe with Cliff has never been so much what he says but the way he purposely says it to get under your skin. If I wanted I bet I could search out and find numerous examples of a thread that was going just fine until a turning point took place causing the tone to change and it would inevitably be at one of the choice wording posts where the thread went from great topic discussion to hostile from that point on in a matter of a few choice words. From that point on its wasted bandwidth as someone else stated already. I don't think its that much to ask for a little common decency in the way we treat each other. Hows this? I'll work on it if you will. I just hate seeing a whole thread get turned upside down over a few posts.

I focus on the personal when it gets personal. Accusing someone of lies whether its factual or not is also personal. You can't just expect to justify it by simply believing it to be fact. Go on over to the H1 forum and start calling guys there shills and liars and see how long it goes on never taking a turn.

STR.
 
Well, it’s both what he says and how he says it. He will twist and turn distorting facts to fit his current argument with no regard for the truth. Just look at how he is continuing to call Thomas a lire in this thread, it is shameful. I can’t believe these personal attacks by Cliff are aloud to continue.
 
The HI guys and gals all have HIKV and care more about each other's well-being (and those daily specials from Aunt Yangdu) than any outside opinion of them. It would be folly (Foxy Folly) to think otherwise.

But seeing that not every environ is khukuri friendly (we live in unenlightened times), I'm sure a lot of the folks there would enjoy folding pocketknives ranging from Kershaw's JYD II to Fallkniven's U2.
 
Thats my point exactly. He wants to make it out to be like the H1 doesn't react to him the same way and how this never happens there. There is a reason for that. What that says and the only thing it says is that he doesn't behave the same way there as he does here......So my point is if he can be civil there he can damn sure do it here. I don't think its that much to ask.


STR
 
STR said:
What that says and the only thing it says is that he doesn't behave the same way there as he does here......So my point is if he can be civil there he can damn sure do it here. I don't think its that much to ask.
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Disagreeing with you here, STR. Cliff is Cliff no matter where he goes or what he does. I've seen folks flip out over his recommendations to alter khukuri angles and edge-finishes to better match specific tasks and seen others see if his advice would or wouldn't work for them. If he annoys the whizz out of you arguing with Thomas W, he'll annoy the whizz out of you at your son's wedding. ..But you'll know his opinion of the optimum angle for draining a beer bong at the reception.
 
I doubt he is going over there calling people liars and shills the way he has done here Thom. If he did the threads there would also suffer the same way. No forum is exempt just because of the different name it has. The same people in many cases go all over. Maybe not as much in some places but then again people are going to basically be pretty much the same I think in how they react to things when it gets personal. I've always said that Cliff can take it as well as dish it out. But many others that could provide input, even when he disagrees with it are entitled to speak without having to put up with being attacked or called liars repeatedly as he has done here. In a memorable post a while back a man named Clark kept calling Cliff a liar and the thread had a point where Spark popped in and said it better stop and it tapered off and eventually stopped. Cliff knows what its like and has suffered this himself and now is the one calling someone else a liar. It needs to stop. I don't care if he thinks its fact or not. Its a personal attack and should not be tolerated.

STR
 
You're right, Steve. A person; whose position at BFC indicated a need for restraint; kept making personal attacks and relied on a logical fallacy as his protection and Spark quashed that fight. There's at least one other personality who haunts these forums whose participation at a particular subforum always attracts a bunch of trolls. He's always himself, too.
 
Dog of War said:
Yeah, but I'd hate to hijack this thread by posting anything like that here.
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Have you compared the JYD II to any knives of similar build? How did it compare in terms of cutting ability, edge-retention, and ease of use? Do you have any other folders with a similar blade profile and size?
 
Sorry to step in so late, but obviously this thread is mostly beyond being informational. I'll keep it open a bit more to see if it re-focuses onto the interesting sub-topics herein; otherwise will close it if it gets back on the personal.

Joe
 
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