Any love for serrated victorinox swiss army knives,and serrating paring...

[Steely_Gunz]

I keep hearing this, but it has never been my experience. I have seen SE knives that were sharp outcut PE knives that were dull, but in my experience, a sharp PE cuts synthetic and natural fibers just fine, and at least as good as SE. That's just my own experience, though.

I'm with you. A very sharp PE seems to slice through pretty much anything as easily as a SE. Where I give the SE the nod is that a SE is more forgiving of a poor rope cut than a PE. Also, a SE can be more readily forced though fibrous material if both PE and SE are dull. Serrations just keep cutting no matter what. That's what makes them great for beater knives. I don't think I have a serrated knife that is "too dull" to make a cut of some kind. It might be treated more like a saw, but it will still get through pretty much anything in a very ugly fashion.

But, yeah, I agree that a honed and polished PE is a better cutter when your knife is kept shape

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

I'm with you. A very sharp PE seems to slice through pretty much anything as easily as a SE. Where I give the SE the nod is that a SE is more forgiving of a poor rope cut than a PE. Also, a SE can be more readily forced though fibrous material if both PE and SE are dull. Serrations just keep cutting no matter what. That's what makes them great for beater knives. I don't think I have a serrated knife that is "too dull" to make a cut of some kind. It might be treated more like a saw, but it will still get through pretty much anything in a very ugly fashion.

But, yeah, I agree that a honed and polished PE is a better cutter when your knife is kept shape

I agree with all of that.

Don't get me wrong. I carry this daily, and it's the second one I've owned:

I keep it very sharp, but like the last one, I find I use the plain edge section more than the serrations, and I'm looking forward to the time when my sharpening makes it a plain edge, like the last one became.

 

[kamakiri.knives]

I keep hearing this, but it has never been my experience. I have seen SE knives that were sharp outcut PE knives that were dull, but in my experience, a sharp PE cuts synthetic and natural fibers just fine, and at least as good as SE. That's just my own experience, though.

It’s somewhat difficult to make a fair, unbiased comparison. Aside from the fact that all of our experiences are different by default, all SE SAKs are chisel ground, and most SAK PE are not. The difference between ~20° chisel and ~34° plain is a huge difference that shouldn’t be ignored. There are many reasons why SAK steel and a 20° edge have users who don’t like it, or why it’ll never meet their needs, real or imagined.

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

It’s somewhat difficult to make a fair, unbiased comparison. Aside from the fact that all of our experiences are different by default, all SE SAKs are chisel ground, and most SAK PE are not. The difference between ~20° chisel and ~34° plain is a huge difference that shouldn’t be ignored. There are many reasons why SAK steel and a 20° edge have users who don’t like it, or why it’ll never meet their needs, real or imagined.

While I agree with your assessment of angles, I am talking about my own experience, and not just with SAKs. I have never had a truly sharp plain edged blade, in any brand or steel (junk gas-station knives excluded) fail to to cut something like old dirty wet synthetic rope, that was then subsequently successfully cut by a serrated blade. Just my experience.

 

[TimButterfield]

While I agree with your assessment of angles, I am talking about my own experience, and not just with SAKs. I have never had a truly sharp plain edged blade, in any brand or steel (junk gas-station knives excluded) fail to to cut something like old dirty wet synthetic rope, that was then subsequently successfully cut by a serrated blade. Just my experience.

One thing I read not too long ago is how the grit used for sharpening a PE can affect cutting of some materials. For example, using a more coarse stone to sharpen may leave a micro-serration on an otherwise plain edge. This may help in some fibrous material cutting scenarios. Conversely, the finer the stone used, the less teeth the plain edge would have. So, sharp may mean different things depending on the desired cutting scenario. Sharp for paper and cardboard isn't quite the same as sharp for rope.

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

One thing I read not too long ago is how the grit used for sharpening a PE can affect cutting of some materials. For example, using a more coarse stone to sharpen may leave a micro-serration on an otherwise plain edge. This may help in some fibrous material cutting scenarios. Conversely, the finer the stone used, the less teeth the plain edge would have. So, sharp may mean different things depending on the desired cutting scenario. Sharp for paper and cardboard isn't quite the same as sharp for rope.

Quite possible, but let me give you an example from my experience that seems to contradict that. Years ago I worked for a company that, among other things, provided aluminum street signs. One day I had a customer pull his trailer into the warehouse to pick up his sign order, because it was raining. In his trailer was a ~1" synthetic rope that was wet and full of sand and grit. He was trying to cut a length of it to tie down his signs, using a razor-knife. It was not cutting. I offered to cut it with my Queen canoe. I had recently sharpened it using the sandpaper on mousepad process, up to 1,500 grit, finished by stropping with 1/2 micron chromium oxide paste. It was not a toothy edge, but it was VERY sharp. He declined my help, because he couldn't believe my knife was sharper than his razor blade, and finished cutting, slowly and messily, with a pair of wire cutters. I told him afterward that I almost guaranteed my knife would cut it. He looked at me, and, almost as a challenge, held out the rope in both hands, and said "Go for it." My very fine, non-toothy plain edged knife sailed through that wet, dirty synthetic rope with barely a whisper, and almost no resistance.
I'll just never believe that "toothy" or serrated is necessary to cut fibrous materials. All that is needed is sharp.

 

[kamakiri.knives]

From the mod fodder/use pile:





Uh, not for sale. Also have some in silver boxes. These would also be awesome in polispectral coating. I’d pay a $10 to $15 premium for just the main blade to be done. No need to have the other tools done unless it’s the Companion’s package opener.

 

[StuntDouble]

Quite possible, but let me give you an example from my experience that seems to contradict that. Years ago I worked for a company that, among other things, provided aluminum street signs. One day I had a customer pull his trailer into the warehouse to pick up his sign order, because it was raining. In his trailer was a ~1" synthetic rope that was wet and full of sand and grit. He was trying to cut a length of it to tie down his signs, using a razor-knife. It was not cutting. I offered to cut it with my Queen canoe. I had recently sharpened it using the sandpaper on mousepad process, up to 1,500 grit, finished by stropping with 1/2 micron chromium oxide paste. It was not a toothy edge, but it was VERY sharp. He declined my help, because he couldn't believe my knife was sharper than his razor blade, and finished cutting, slowly and messily, with a pair of wire cutters. I told him afterward that I almost guaranteed my knife would cut it. He looked at me, and, almost as a challenge, held out the rope in both hands, and said "Go for it." My very fine, non-toothy plain edged knife sailed through that wet, dirty synthetic rope with barely a whisper, and almost no resistance.
I'll just never believe that "toothy" or serrated is necessary to cut fibrous materials. All that is needed is sharp.

True, sharp is the main thing. And in my experience, after the first use most of those disposable razors are anything but sharp. I don't believe that a toothy edge is necessary, but I have found it to be more helpful than one that is highly polished. I've also found that a toothy plain edge tends to hold on to that biting edge longer as well. Especially when we're talking Victorinox's steel.

From the mod fodder/use pile:





Uh, not for sale. Also have some in silver boxes. These would also be awesome in polispectral coating. I’d pay a $10 to $15 premium for just the main blade to be done. No need to have the other tools done unless it’s the Companion’s package opener.

What'd you do, clear out the rest that Hamilton Marine had in stock? lol. I've been tempted to grab a couple more for when they finally discontinue the model.

 

[lonestar1979]

No mistake with either one,serrated or plain edge victorinox blades,I sharpen my plain edge blades with diamond sharpener,and they have plenty of bite too

 

[kamakiri.knives]

I don't believe that a toothy edge is necessary, but I have found it to be more helpful than one that is highly polished. I've also found that a toothy plain edge tends to hold on to that biting edge longer as well. Especially when we're talking Victorinox's steel.

Sometimes, I feel it just seems that way. I’m not sure how many could actually get a polished serrated that matches the angle of the original toothy grind. In the interest of a ‘fair’ comparison.

What'd you do, clear out the rest that Hamilton Marine had in stock? lol. I've been tempted to grab a couple more for when they finally discontinue the model.

Nope. Sierra on clearance for $16.99 a while back. Should’ve bought more. I often question wether the naysayers have actually used them new. Because every time I get a used one, there’s some signs of abuse to fix. Weekenders, original Outdoorsman, original Picnicker, and Serrated Recruits…finding preowned ones with the original grind and like new is pretty rare. There’s also a fair amount of variation in the various grinds over the decades. I think these serrations have been used since the mid-60s or so.

 

[StuntDouble]

Sometimes, I feel it just seems that way. I’m not sure how many could actually get a polished serrated that matches the angle of the original toothy grind. In the interest of a ‘fair’ comparison.

Nope. Sierra on clearance for $16.99 a while back. Should’ve bought more. I often question wether the naysayers have actually used them new. Because every time I get a used one, there’s some signs of abuse to fix. Weekenders, original Outdoorsman, original Picnicker, and Serrated Recruits…finding preowned ones with the original grind and like new is pretty rare. There’s also a fair amount of variation in the various grinds over the decades. I think these serrations have been used since the mid-60s or so.

I've polished serrated edges before, just not Victorinox's. It wasn't too hard, but I don't know that it was worth the effort.

 

[kamakiri.knives]

I've polished serrated edges before, just not Victorinox's. It wasn't too hard, but I don't know that it was worth the effort.

That’s always a good question. The effort, time and skill costs are pretty high compared to the benefits.

What I really should do as a more fair comparison is put a chisel grind on a PE and live with that for a while.

 

[StuntDouble]

That’s always a good question. The effort, time and skill costs are pretty high compared to the benefits.

What I really should do as a more fair comparison is put a chisel grind on a PE and live with that for a while.

Just grab one of the Victorinox Gardeners. Those things can be made laser sharp pretty easily.

 

[miafricker]

 

[Stelth]

The Vic serrations work well. I like them.

 

[kamakiri.knives]

Just grab one of the Victorinox Gardeners. Those things can be made laser sharp pretty easily.

Oh, I might have a few of those

I use the Hawksbills primarily. I like them enough that I mod them into the 111mm frame. Uses the liner lock. But to be fair, I don’t know if those are the same steel or same temper. I’ve also never had a chisel ground drop point. So a bit curious there.

 

[StuntDouble]

Oh, I might have a few of those

I use the Hawksbills primarily. I like them enough that I mod them into the 111mm frame. Uses the liner lock. But to be fair, I don’t know if those are the same steel or same temper. I’ve also never had a chisel ground drop point. So a bit curious there.

I'm not 100% but I think they are. I think the main difference is the blade finish.