bears and other large critters

S

squatch

Joined
Dec 14, 1999
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I am interested in what experiences other forum members/moderators have had with large predatory wildlife. Here in the East, we mainly have black bears and coyotes. In 30 years of roaming the Adirondacks I have only seen one bear from a distance. Had numerous night time visits from coyote packs but not much to talk about. I am interested in others experiences and what they did right or wrong.

John
 
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[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
John, when I read your question, it reminded me of a time down at the hunting preserve that I belong to, of a guy who got bored with deer hunting the old fashioned way. Please keep in mind that he is an ex-marine, and served in Vietnam. Well the week I was there, we were all eating at the table, and he told us of how he was up in a stand, and how the deer would go right under him, and how close he could get to them. So the next day, he informed us that he was going to attempt to take out one with his knife. I believe it was a black handled Ka-bar, partially serrated. He had it strapped onto his leg, and he was up on the stand. By the time the morning was over, he came back, his face was all cut up, and his body was bruised. When asked what happened, it seems he jumped on a doe, and got it in a bear hug position from the front. he had its front legs trapped, and everytime he would let go to get his knife, the doe would kick or hoof him in the face..so after many attempts, he had to let go and suffer the consequences, the guys at the preserve had a good laugh about it, and the picture of what he looks like still is in my mind as I dwell upon it today...so there is a human provoked animal attack for ya!
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Joe
 
I grew up in Alaska and still go to our homestead there almost every summer. There are numerous black bears and the occasional grizzly. We have spent time there for the last 37 years without any bear problems. But one year a sow grizzly and two cubs kept running fishermen off a creek where we park our boat. We never ran into her but I did see a fisherman right after an encounter. He was as white as a sheet and shaking violently! The bear charged him and stopped a few feet from him, stood up on her hind legs, and roared at him.
A good friend was still hunting early one morning, when he heard a twig crack behind him. He looked and there was a large boar black bear that was obiously following his scent trail. They were faced off at about 15-20 feet, and the bear had a embarrased expression. After a minute or two the bear left.
It's important to realize that all bears are extremely powerful and quick. Usually encounters are at very close range, and no weapon is really going to guarentee stoping a determinded attack. I carry a 45-70 lever action rifle or a 44 magnum pistol, but I would hate to have to use either. I just figure I can at least inflict some damage too, if I'm quick enough to get a shot off.
 
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[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
I've been to Alaska many times over the last 25 years,lived in western alaska bristol bay region for over 10 years. Brown Bears are around alot,they are one creature you do not want to mess with.I will bet money by the time you realized the bear was charging you ,you will have crapped your pants completely missed him with your pistol and he will be chewing on you. unless you have had alot of experience hunting big game and have shot your gun alot, I would not put a lot of faith in a 44mag being a good stopper for brown bear.
 
I've been to Alaska many times over the last 25 years,lived in western alaska bristol bay region for over 10 years. Brown Bears are around alot,they are one creature you do not want to mess with.I will bet money by the time you realized the bear was charging you ,you will have crapped your pants completely missed him with your pistol and he will be chewing on you. unless you have had alot of experience hunting big game and have shot your gun alot, I would not put a lot of faith in a 44mag being a good stopper for brown bear.
 
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[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
At the moment, all the bears are asleep, and I'm more wary of meeting a Momma Moose... I've crossed fresh tracks several times out skiing, and decided I'd not go when visibility is bad. I was out one night, with dense fog, and all I could see was the beam of light my flashlight projected. I could see about 20 feet, beyond that was nothing. I'm pretty sure the Moose and calf that left tracks on my trail that day were long gone, but I'm not gonna take that chance.

As far as bears here, I'll relay the advice I've heard, and pray I never have an up close and personal encounter with bears. Learn avoidance behavior. Most of ya'll know that. If you are attacked by a brown/grizz, do not fight back. Fall down dead, protect your head and vitals, and wait for him to finish. Then wait longer, since he will likely trot off a ways to see if yer still dead. After you really feel dead, cautiosly look around, and then take the most expediant route to medical attention...
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For black bears, fight back. Pocket knife, flashlight, stick, gouge out their eyes, bang 'em on the snout. They'll get annoyed (or actually hurt) and decide it's not worth it.

As far as guns and grizzes, heres a story I read, 'bout hunting Grizz in alaska. A guy was hunting (With the mandatory guide) grizzlies with a blackpowder long gun (54, iirc). He found a bear at somewhere near a hundred yards, got a great side-shot, took his time, and put a minie ball into the vital zone. Da bear got mad. He looked up, huffed a bit, and started charging. Meanwhile, this guy is reloading his rifle, a much easier task without a bear charging at you. Bear gets down to 50 yards, then 25, and the guy drops the rifle, and pulls out his pistol (Another blackpowder, this guy is crazy...) And just as he gets the pistol clear, and pointed at the bear, it hits the ground, about 10 - 15 yards off. He turns and looks at the guide, who had a normal highpower rifle, and the guide is as close to shaking in his boots as he can be and still look professional, rifle up, pointed at bear, almost white knuckles. The bear had taken a beautiful shot. If it had been competition, it woulda been a bull. No ribs hit, only vitals. It still ran nearly 100 yards at a dead sprint, before the guy could reload. I wish we could give them guns and put 'em in uniform. I think the marines would even respect them...

Stryver, anyone with only two single-shots, and pointing them at grizzlies, is crazy.

 
Yes I miss Alaska! My family and I just moved, I voted for Alaska, my wife and kids voted for Florida! Guess where we moved to? Yup Florida...
I think a 44 magnum would certainly be much more useful on a black bear than a grizzly. A 454 Casull would be much better. But that's assuming you could get it out and hit the bear! In timber that's not certain at all. It's important to realize that it's very unlikely you would be attacked by a bear, and if you were it's possible that however you are armed you might be injured or killed. This is the chance you take when you go into bear country. I just like to be armed to have a chance of being at the top of the food chain!!!
A rifle or shotgun is still a much better choice than any pistol. Some of the new shotgun slugs are tempting, but I think the old 45-70 lever action is still the weapon of choice! I just wish someone would make a stainless steel one!!
 
I read an article in the paper yesterday 'bout a rather tough old geezer. This 64 year old guy was out hunting, and had killed his cervine Presumbly moose, I dn't recall). He was working on the carcass, and a big old Kodiak Brown decided it was hungry, and attacked the old guy. The guy fought the bear off with his buck knife, and convinced the bear to start running. Then the guy grabs his rifle, and shoots the bear.

He's still recovering from his injuries, he took a pretty good beating, but gave as good as he got, and managed to get the bearskin home, complete with knife-slits from fighting it off. He was supposed to start therapy last week on his route to recovery, but took his grandkids to Florida instead...
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Stryver, who would not want to meet that old guy in a dark alley...
 
My friend's father was hunting one year with a pal of his, and they ran into a griz. He emptied his .44 magnum pistol into the bear and hit true with every shot. The grizzly kept on coming and was finally dropped by his friend with a rifle. That has got to be some SCARRY sh!t when you hit your attacker 6 times with a .44 and he keeps on coming.

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Louis Buccellato
http://www.themartialway.com
Knives, Weapons and equipment. Best prices anywhere.
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"only the paranoid will survive"
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[This message has been edited by TheMartialWay (edited 01-04-2000).]
 
A friend and I were traveling down a draw when we came upon a black bear with cub. Because of the noise of the creek we were next to she didn't hear us moving or talking. I know she didn't see us because we were in the open. The bears were only about 15 yards away when I saw her. I immediately got my friends attention, quietly of course because he was in front of me, and started to move away. Fortunately, there was a breeze coming down the draw and she caught our scent and scrambled into the brush with her cub. I am glad it did not get worse because I had no knife or gun and less common sense then.
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I've got another one.
An acquintance of my father's was hunting black bear in Montana. He saw a bear and glassed it to make sure it was black and not griz. The guide he was with glassed it as well and they both agreed it was black and a good target. He shot the bear and it fell dead. It's mother came charging at them and she most definitely wasn't a black bear and he had to shoot her too.
The moral of this story is proper target identification. A juvenile grizzly does not yet have the distinctive dish face or hump.
I guess another one would be to have the right tool for the job, ie a BIG rifle. The mother grizzly closed to within a hundred yards before expiring if I remember the story correctly.
 
This is not a story about large predators but it is about possibly dangerous predators so I hope it is ok to include in this thread.
When I was just a pup I went out in the woods to look for a lost dog and surprised a rather large pack of domestic dogs turned wild.All I had on me was a couple of knives (at least I had a -little- common sense back then) so I was looking for a tree with large enough and low enough branches to fly up and in that short period of time they decided to leave. Since then it is rare (if ever) that I go into the woods without a gun. Some of these dog packs have shown aggression without much fear to humans around here.
I also would like to remind everyone that large game that are not predators or even normally considered dangerous can be dangerous at times.I was taking a deer I killed to a check in station one year and I saw a man walking up the road and as I got closer I noticed blood all over his face and clothing.I stopped and saw him to his home and found out he had been checking his ground on an ATV when a big buck came out of nowhere and knocked him off his vehicle!I think he tried to keep a tree between him and the buck and when it left he headed for home.He was a little disoriented and he almost lost an eye but he survived.
So I usually not only have a gun with me at all times in the woods for dog packs and the occasional really odd acting small animals (possibly rabid) but I make sure it is large enough for the biggest animal I am likely to encounter, even if it is not considered "dangerous" game.
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Good point! I consider dogs to be relatively large preditors so yeah your reply is right on topic. I also almost always carry a firearm in the woods. I am concerned with animals(large and small, rabid or mean, carnivor or preditor) and even more so with 2 legged preditors. Since my children have come into my life, I am even more concerned with having adequate protection at hand.
 
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[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
Large predatory animals?..hrm... do mother's-in-law, count?
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sorry..couldn't help it.
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"I wouldn't mind you being inside my head if you weren't clearly so crazy."

"I do not conform according to your opinion."

[This message has been edited by Vailin Krow (edited 01-04-2000).]
 
I've been thinking about close-range suprisal of large, dangerous animals, and a pistol would be rather hard, though not impossible, to have out in time to help. How's the idea of a short pike sound to you?

I'd find one like so: A stout stick, 1 - 1 1/2 inch diameter, 6 - 8 feet long (depending on terrain) with a butt spike. The head would be a wide, triangle blade (Large version of a broadhead) to maximize the wound. We need not penetration power, a charging animal provides plenty of that.

For use, it would be carried like a hiking stick (It may be good to have a head that is taller than yours for this reason), and thus easily available. If suprised, the butt spike is planted in the ground, and the tip pointed in the general direction of the animals center of mass. Fast implementation, but the guts required to stand a charge.

I'm going to guess that a animal thus skewered would become slightly less interested in you, and slightly more interested in the branch protruding from him, thus allowing time for your next action.
Because of the possible depth of animal I'd have to penetrate, I do not know if I'd want a crosspiece on it, as I would for smaller game, and for sure the other members of your party will cast you strange side-glaces, traipsing through the woods with such a weapon (But they do that to me anyways...
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). Without going into personal preferences vs. a gun, what do you think the utility of such a tool would be?

The longer, industrial size versions were originally used for taking out charging horses, making it easier to dispatch their riders (Or those that survived impact anyways). Seeing that they virtually destroyed the effectiveness of mounted shock troops in history, might it work well for merely a mount?

Stryver, having concluded a short sword would not be effective vs. a bear...
 
Stryver,

My thought is that the weapon I choose has to be powerful, yet easily carried at all times or sure as Mr.Murphy's law, I won't have it when I need it. I live in the East and have zero chance of running into a Griz unless one escapes from a zoo. I am most concerned with canids (dogs and eastern coyotes), black bears, 2 legged varmints and the occasional rabid animal. I usually carry a Sig semi auto in .357 sig or my S&W Mountain Gun in .44 mag. Both are light enough that I will actually carry them(I am basically a lazy bastard, so my stuff has to be light and compact
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). I am competant with handguns and comfortable with my abilities. Now if something jumps me from ambush can I get a gun into play fast enough to make a difference? Don't know. But I do know that any larger weapon won't end up being carried regularly enough to be useful.

Just my thoughts.

John
 
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