Can The Wave+ And The ARC Live In The Same Universe?

Can the Wave+ and the ARC compete against each other indefinitely?

  • Yes

  • No


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Joined
Sep 22, 2023
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I've read somewhere the Wave+ is the best selling multi-tool ever. But so was the Model T. So, I wonder how much longer the Wave+ will be in production.

Or, if sales #'s are bad for the Arc, does the Wave+ survive?

And, what is Gerber/U.S.A. working on?
 
I am probaby mistaken, but I don't see the WAVE (standard or "+" going away anytime soon.
The FREE P2 and P-4 didn't eliminate any previous models, neither did the BOND.
Besides, the ARC is at a significantly higher price point.
I just looked at the LM site. Call it "$230" for the ARC vs call it "$120" for the Wave+. Different target buyers.
IF I was lookiing at getting a Wave+ (I'm not. I'm quite happy/satisfied with my Charge+ TTi), the ARC would not be under consideration. For an "extra" $10 I could get TWO Wave+ direct from LM. 1 to use, and one for back-up!
I don't "need" a Magna Cut blade ... especially not with such a high premium added for one blade.

As for the argument "it does not need sarpening as often, so you'll save time sharpining!
Which takes less time? 30 to 40 minutes (give or take) combind for 4 or 5 sharpening sessions a month, or 40-45 minutes (give or take) in a single sharpening session over the same time period? (hand sharpening in both cases)

I have no idea what Gerber/USA (or SOG, or any other competitor ... or LM itself) is working on for new and/or updated tools.
 
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I have the regular Wave I bought just before the Wave+ came out, I think I paid $75 for it then. I kinda wish I had waited for plus upgrade but I didn’t know LM was upgrading the Wave then.

I have used it quite a bit at work and it has done everything I asked it to do so I’m happy with it and it has served me well. The only problem I had was with the pocket clip snapping at the J bend. I solved that problem by heating and tempering the replacement and it’s still going strong.

My first LM tool was the Wingman and I still have it in my pickup as a backup, sometimes in my atv. Then a couple years ago I bought a Signal for outdoor activities and I really like it for that purpose. So I don’t plan on spending $230 for an Arc. That’s over 3x what I paid for the Wave and I have a couple really nice knives in magnacut as my primary knife use so the Arc doesn’t excite me any at all at that price, it’s a cool multi tool for the guys wanting a better blade, just not for me.
 
As for the argument "it does not need sarpening as often, so you'll save time sharpining!
Which takes less time? 30 to 40 minutes (give or take) combind for 4 or 5 sharpening sessions a month, or 40-45 minutes (give or take) in a single sharpening session over the same time period? (hand sharpening in both cases)

I don't even spend that much time sharpening over the course of a month. I carry a cheap pocket stone and an angle guide and I am constantly touching up the edges of my "budget steel" knives whenever I use them. Mostly SAKs, but some other cheap stuff as well. I do have more expensive knives but I don't use them very often.

Anyway, I would estimate that all told, I probably spend about 10 minutes a month sharpening, and even that's probably a little generous. Most of the time I just need 10 or so quick swipes on either side and I'm good to go. 20 per side at most. My edges are typically sharper than what they were from the factory. It really doesn't take much at all.

To give you some perspective, I recently spent around 20 minutes literally slicing through thick plastic with the cheap blade of my SOG PowerLitre, and it only took about a minute to get it back to the same level of sharpness that it was at before I started. That's an unusual use case for me. I'm usually not that rough with my knives.

Magnacut, schmagnacut! 🤣 I don't think it makes any sense for the small light duty knives that you get on multitools.
 
I am probaby mistaken, but I don't see the WAVE (stabdard or "+" going away anytime soon.
The FREE P2 and P-4 didn't eliminate any previous models, neither did the BOND.
Besides, the ARC is at a significantly higher price point.
I just looked at the LM site. Call it "$230" for the ARC vs call it "$120" for the Wave+. Different target buyers.
IF I was lookiing at getting a Wave+ (I'm not. I'm quite happy/satisfied with my Charge+ TTi), the ARC would not be under consideration. For an "extra" $10 direct from LM, I could get TWO Wave+; 1 to use, and one for back-up!
I don't "need" a Magna Cut blade ... especially not with such a high premium added for one blade.

As for the argument "it does not need sarpening as often, so you'll save time sharpining!
Which takes less time? 30 to 40 minutes (give or take) combind for 4 or 5 sharpening sessions a month, or 40-45 minutes (give or take) in a single sharpening session over the same time period? (hand sharpening in both cases)

I have no idea what Gerber/USA (or SOG, or any other competitor ... or LM itself) is working on for new and/or updated tools.
I don’t know about Leathermans heat treatment on magnacut but the Buck 501 Larrin I have is a breeze to sharpen. After two months of general use I finally decided it needed to be touched up a bit. It wasn’t really all that dull but I wanted it to be better. I spent less than five minutes and it is scary sharp, as sharp as any knife blade I’ve ever sharpened. It came with a really sharp edge to begin with but wow it really takes a nice edge! And didn’t take much to get it there. I am impressed!
 
I don't even spend that much time sharpening over the course of a month.
I was being pessimistic, rather than optimistic on the time to sharpen "regular" steels by hand.
Hades, Zeus and kin might know how long Magna Cut takes to sharpen by hand. Much longer than a simple steel that isn't super abrasion resistent, I'm sure.
 
I haven't spent 20 minutes total sharpening the blade on my Leatherman in 10 years. Not much need for edge holding when you never use it. Talk about jumping on the hype wagon.
 
I can't see why they both can't coexist, for a while at least. Each platform is different enough that they shouldn't cannibalize sales from one another.

I wouldn't mind having a Magnacut blade in my multitool. Or S30V. Or 154CM. Lately my Free P2 has been my main knife blade at work, and it would be nice to have something with just a little bit more edge holding. As far as sharpening goes, if the blade on my P2 is any indication, Leatherman grinds their edges rather thin, so it shouldn't be anymore difficult maintaining Magnacut over their 420HC if you have ceramic or diamond stones.
 
I can't see why they both can't coexist, for a while at least.

I had read another thread about Leatherman discontinuing products abruptly and just wondered if this was to be the new "flagship", perhaps they might eventually thin the heard. I'm still debating one, but the faulty cutters and the Chinese sheath are giving me pause.
 
I had read another thread about Leatherman discontinuing products abruptly and just wondered if this was to be the new "flagship", perhaps they might eventually thin the heard. I'm still debating one, but the faulty cutters and the Chinese sheath are giving me pause.
I'm sure it's possible, but it seems like the Wave is still a pretty popular model, and sort of splits the difference between their cheaper tools and the expensive Arc.
 
I would say no because but I am coming from the perspective of if i was in the market for a new multitool I would pay the extra amount for the Arc because it has a better toolset. For a tool that I would hope to carry for 20 plus years I think the extra money is worth it.
 
This has been posted before, but thought it could be re-upped again.
It's important to understand that while you're gaining some edge holding with Magnacut, you're also GIVING UP a ton of toughness by going away from 420HC.
There is a reason multitool makers use 420HC on all the tool impliments, it's a darn tough steel.

What do you value more on a multitool blade? Edge holding or toughness?

SWwlMxx.png
 
This has been posted before, but thought it could be re-upped again.
It's important to understand that while you're gaining some edge holding with Magnacut, you're also GIVING UP a ton of toughness by going away from 420HC.
There is a reason multitool makers use 420HC on all the tool impliments, it's a darn tough steel.

What do you value more on a multitool blade? Edge holding or toughness?

SWwlMxx.png
I wish they'd use lc200n for multitools, hell, make the entire thing from it. Perfect for fisherman and people who neglect their multitools like my wife.
 
This has been posted before, but thought it could be re-upped again.
It's important to understand that while you're gaining some edge holding with Magnacut, you're also GIVING UP a ton of toughness by going away from 420HC.
There is a reason multitool makers use 420HC on all the tool impliments, it's a darn tough steel.

What do you value more on a multitool blade? Edge holding or toughness?

SWwlMxx.png
I agree, I am apt to abuse my multi tool blade more so rather than use my main knife for stuff that is more likely to chip or wear the edge and nasty stuff. I’ll stay with 420hc on my multi tools.
 
So I voted "yes". If you just take the two models in isolation from all the other multitools, there is no reason why the wave and the arc can't coexist. The real question is whether the wave can continue to exist when there are so many cheap clones now that the patents on it are all expired.

Another question is whether the arc and the charge can coexist. A lot of people are comparing the two and are coming down in favor of the charge over the arc, both in terms of cost and in terms of the toolsets. They're saying the charge is better than the arc. Personally, I would only agree if the charge had an awl. However, you can modify a flat leatherman bit into an awl if you have the time and the inclination...

This has been posted before, but thought it could be re-upped again.
It's important to understand that while you're gaining some edge holding with Magnacut, you're also GIVING UP a ton of toughness by going away from 420HC.
There is a reason multitool makers use 420HC on all the tool impliments, it's a darn tough steel.

What do you value more on a multitool blade? Edge holding or toughness?

🤔

Definitely toughness. It's why most of my knives are sharpened at 20 degrees per side. The fun thing about this is that knives with more acute angles can easily be reprofiled to less acute angles over time. You only need to keep sharpening them at the wider angle. At first it starts as a micro bevel, then it becomes a secondary bevel. It takes a lot of time to do the opposite by going from a wider angle to a steeper angle, and the edge becomes more fragile when you do that.

I know there are a lot of people who sing the praises of steep angles retaining sharpness, but this requires a higher quality steel and/or lighter use, such as you would see with a decent kitchen knife.

When it comes to super steels, there is a good case to be made for heavy use situations like with bushcraft, or maybe in some professional settings, but in my mind it doesn't compensate for the greater ease of sharpening the so-called budget steels. Magnacut was put forward as the exception to this. It's supposed to be a super steel with awesome edge retention and a greater ease of sharpening (and superior corrosion resistance on top of that), however it's still not justifiable when the cost is so high and the actual blade is so small. When the blade is not suited or designed for heavy use, there's no way I can see to justify making it from a super steel, especially when it raises the cost so much.

There's a place for the arc, but it's not what everyone thinks it is. In my opinion, the toolset is far more appealing than the knife steel, but most of the focus is on the knife. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
 
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I've read somewhere the Wave+ is the best selling multi-tool ever. But so was the Model T. So, I wonder how much longer the Wave+ will be in production.

Or, if sales #'s are bad for the Arc, does the Wave+ survive?

And, what is Gerber/U.S.A. working on?
Not a great example, the model T sold well not because it was a fantastic car and it got outdated pretty quick. The wave is a great multitool and it is nowhere near outdated if you look at the rest of the market.

I guess I just don't see a lot of average people paying the arc price for one thing that they don't really appreciate anyway. It is super niche.

And gerber USA? Lol, no concern there....

I wish they'd use lc200n for multitools, hell, make the entire thing from it. Perfect for fisherman and people who neglect their multitools like my wife.
Agreed. Not sure why but the body on my leathermans get speckles of rust if left untreated and unused. I keep a few leatherman in rather undesirable environments, I'd appreciate the rest of the tool be more rust resistant, not just the blade.
 
One thing I noticed on the Arc, the blade is 2.75 inches and shorter than the Wave + at 2.9 inches. The Arc is .25 inches longer than the Wave , youda thought it would have a longer not shorter blade. I like the profile of the Wave blade and the length is enough to do some good for outdoor tasks. The more I look at the Arc the less I like it.
 
One thing I noticed on the Arc, the blade is 2.75 inches and shorter than the Wave + at 2.9 inches. The Arc is .25 inches longer than the Wave , youda thought it would have a longer not shorter blade. I like the profile of the Wave blade and the length is enough to do some good for outdoor tasks. The more I look at the Arc the less I like it.
I could not agree more.
 
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