Recommendation? CATRA results for common steels missing

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Dec 31, 2023
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I tried to search but could not find meaning full results. So if I’m repeating question please point me to the right thread or page.

I’m about to choose my next kitchen knife. This time I’m doing research :). I found mentions of Catra test but could not find any link to the actual results. I’m searching for CATRA results for popular steels used in German and Japanese knives:
1.4116
AUS8
AUS10
VG5
VG10
SG2/R2

While I did find some results including sg2 and vg10 but the rest are not included in these diagrams.

Can someone help me find results for these steels? Especially:
1.4116
AUS8
AUS10
VG5

Im looking for toughness+edge retention + hardness

Thank you!!
 
CATRA testing only indicates abrasion resistance. And it's only accurate if you have blades of exactly the same profile and edge angle. Blade profile and Edge angle have more impact on CATRA results than the alloy does.

But you can try looking here:
 
I think I got that. However it still does have some meaning and trend. It is more measurable than salesperson promises. I’ve been to several Japanese knife stores and each person tells me different things on the same knives.

So again an someone point me to the Catra results of those steels?
 
Maybe Larrin Larrin can help point you in the right direction with your request.
 
Larrin Larrin I saw the post and your page. 1.4116 is missing in most comparisons and is missing all other steels I mentioned above. Can you tell if these were checked but are just stated by different aliasy name?

Thank you!

And Happy New Year all!!!
 
You can go to this page and scroll down to Stainless Steel Ratings. Larrin gives relative rankings by toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance.

1.4116 is a low end steel with poor toughness, poor edge retention and good corrosion resistance.

AUS 8 is pretty average, with poor edge retention.

VG10 and SuperGold2 are fairly average.
 
I’ve got CATRA knives coming for 8Cr13MoV which is identical to AUS-8. VG10 and SG2 are in the original article. You should have seen the available CATRA results before I generated mine (almost nonexistent).
 
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I’m surprised that AUS8/10, 420, vg5 are not present and 1.4116 is visible only on one diagram. Together with other I mentioned above these are most popular steel types in kitchen knives I can see.

All the other steels I find in report are non existent on the kitchen knife market.
 
That IS the original article. Larrin is the orginator. He generated the data himself using blades profiled and edged exactly the same. Pretty sure member deadboxhero produced those blades. You want more alloys measured? Make a donation. He does that all on his own nickel.
 
Years ago my wife and I received a set of Wusthof kitchen knives. Excited to have a nice set of knives, I've been disappointed with them. I can sharpen them for my wife and in a few days you'd never know it, they are dull as can be. I looked at kitchen knives this year on some big knife sale websites thinking I could get my wife a couple for Christmas. I was kind of suprised to see a huge lack of good steel choices in the kitchen knives compared to what you now have to pick from in pocket knives.

All of this to say I think when the funds are available I am going to look into the excellent folks on here making custom knives and get a really good quality knife or two made. I think that is going to be the only way to get what I want. I just couldn't find any chefs knives in s90v or maybe magnacut. But I could going custom, and even specify what hardness I'm looking for.

Maybe that might be a better option for you too? Instead of trying to decide between a group of lower end steels
 
Unfortunately these knives are made in USA. I’m from Europe, any companies make MagnaCut knives in Europe? Any Japanese style knives made this way available in Europe?

Also Larrin Larrin I found in your other articles more on AUS8 rating like here https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10...ness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/
This is a great resource for non metallurgy people like me. Give a rating we can read :) toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance. Really appreciate your work!

Is there any equivalent there on your charts to Cromova18 from Global?
 
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Unfortunately these knives are made in USA. I’m from Europe, any companies make MagnaCut knives in Europe? Any Japanese style knives made this way available in Europe?

Also Larrin Larrin I found in your other articles more on AUS8 rating like here https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10...ness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/
This is a great resource for non metallurgy people like me. Give a rating we can read :) toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance. Really appreciate your work!

Is there any equivalent there on your charts to Cromova18 from Global?
You are better off asking about the specific knives you are interested in than trying to pick a kitchen knife just based on the steel. A lot more goes into a quality kitchen knife than the specific steel.
 
Below as you asked details on specific knives and my goals. It’s off topic to the thread name but may help you reply better to my needs.

There are so many companies and models that I was looking at that it does not make sense to ask people on formuł for each and every one. Especially that I’m in first please looking for general purpose kitchen knives starting with chefs knife. I started by checking kitchen knife steels. Quickly I learned that most kitchen knives available in stores are made of either cheap Chinese steel. That 1.4116 or X50 steel used in German knives is much better. I also learned about HRC. So my initial choice was for Zwilling Pro series in Christmas sales (in Europe normally cost 130$ and on sale 80$). So this was my base for new chefs and petty knives, together with curved Hendi bread knife. I can still return these :)
Then I learned about other harder steels like VG10/VG5/SG2/AUS10/AUS8/AUS6 and Japanese knives. However I learned that these are thin and much easier to chip and so I would like to have one or two such knives for fun. Here I was thinking about Tojiro DP3 21 Gyuto, Kotetsu VG10 Damascus, Tsunehisa AS Migaki Kiritsuke, Tamahagane San Black Gyuto, Suncraft Priffesional SG2 Guyto and even Kanetsugu Zuiun Kiritsuke in SG2.

Now after reading lest night about CATRA tests and tangible/measurable differences in steel types I do want to include that in my final choice. And so:
For general purpose kitchen knives for not worrying too much if my wife will treat them well, I see x50 steel isn’t actually as good and there are better choices. I also don’t want to make it too expensive. So seeing that Global steel has better opinions than x50 and they brag about great Catra results I want to check where they sand in comparison based on numbers. And potentially change Zwilling to Global. Or any other available brand that may be better than Global. I don’t want to invest in crafters hand made super knives that will cost probably 5x that of Global or Zwilling.

For a hobby/investigation driven Japanese knife choice I see from CATRA that SG2 is not that much better than VG10, Aogami Super isn’t much wear resistant, I started looking for some alternatives. I see SG2 knives are x2 as expensive as VG10 and while highly praised in internet and used for higher end knives, based on CATRA this cost may not be that justified.
Here my budget is larger and I’m looking for some better available alternatives. When I get the good steel options I may only then consider specific knife alternatives to discuss.
 
Well, my kitchen knives are cheap generic stainless steel knives. So, no fancy japanese and EU names in my kitchen.
Lets say our kitchen is average EU kitchen and all knife users in our kitchen are fairly average regarding knife handling.
I somehow managed to explained them washing machine is not a good thing for knives and wooden cutting board is better then glass board but that's about it.
I sharpenen my kitchen knives about 14 days ago. I just checked and all of them still cut news paper with grains and cross grains if you know what I mean.
This is a remarkable achievement at least in our home.
The only thing I changed is the way how I sharpen my knives.

So, what are your expectations?
How long the edge lasts on your knives before it needs sharpening? How long would you want it to last?
Do you sharpen your knives by yourself?

By the way, I don't know Catra scores of my kitchen knives. 😉
 
We have diamond Smiths plate two sided 400 and 1000. I also have cheap Chinese water stones 1000/3000 managed to sharpen market chefs knife to 12* 2 weeks ago and hoan it daily with ceramic IKEA rod. Seems sharp.
 
Bump, anyone can advise?

Based on my further reading and checks. Zwilling seems to have best scores just after Global. And it has traditional shape. Global has more of a flat gyuto shape. Will keep Zwilling Pro Traditional version 8”. For gyuto to style will just buy Guyto or Kiritsuke. Will be looking for HAP40, seems much better than VG10 and SG2 but will need a bit more love to not rust.
 
I believe it is a mistake to choose a cooking knife based solely on steel type alone.
What makes a knife one that you use frequently, rather than one that sits in a drawer,
is the design and weight distrubution balance which results in comfort and ease of use.
As for steel types, I have VG10, SG2 and Blue Super knives. Among many others.
From actual user experience I can say that SG2 retains an edge noticable longer than VG10.
Blue Super also retains an edge long and is easy to sharpen. And the exposed AS will patina
so rust is not so much an issue. I have repaired quite a number of VG10 core knives that showed
small chipping. Nearly all of them hve been lesser known brands. But I have never seen chipping on any Tojiro DP series.
Some steels often called "chippy" are the result of heat in the factory sharpening. After one sharpening- no more chips.
Choosing a knife requires holding it in your hand.. Or at least input from those who have used it.
Choosing a steel also requires actual use experience or info from those who have it, Not just data.
The German knives like Wustoff and Zwilling all use some variant of 4116. Characteristacally high rust resistance, relatively low HRC (56-58)
and very tough. The edge will roll before chipping. Hence honing rods are used to correct the edge.
Among Japanse knives Aus6 is extinct, Even Aus8 is now modified iin various ways, and cal;ed MV (Molydenum Vanadium) in te Japanese domestic market.
VG10 is the most common of the Takefu steels. But my experience has varied based on brand.
The powder steels are a whole differnt level in terms of hardness and retention.
 
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