Fixed Blade Knife Laws in New York

J

jedidove

Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
62
This was briefly discussed in a different thread on New York knife laws, but I think this is a distinct enough topic to warrant its own thread.

The question is, what are the legalities and precedents (cases) involving carrying a fixed blade/sheathed knife in New York State and separately in New York City. For those unacquainted with the NY knife laws: http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS Just search "knife". The laws of interest are in section 265. Towards the bottom of the search NYC laws are listed.

In summary: only in NYC is there a restriction on open carry (must be concealed) and on blade length (4"). NY state law does not make such restrictions. Furthermore, the only mention of the word sheath in the law is in discussing gravity knives:

5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released
from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the
application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.
Click to expand...

Fixed blades are not mentioned anywhere that I can find. The closest restrictions are on "dirks", "daggers", and "stilettos" which are not defined (though traditionally the terms imply double edged). Also there is the mysterious "dangerous knife" term which is undefined in NY state law to my knowledge.

I'm interested to hear from any LEO's, lawyers, etc. as well as anyone else with experience in the legality of fixed blades including people who have carried fixed blades in the presence of LEO's or been stopped by them, discussed with them, etc.
 
As a former NYC LEO, I can tell you it is a mixed bag for sure as to legal carry of a fixed blade. By the letter of the law, in NYC, if it is not exposed, under a four inch blade, and not carried with the intent for use as a weapon ( including self defense), then it should be legal. There was a transit worker who used a small fixed balde to kill an attacker and was not charged. That said, I am personally aware of two recent arrest for steak knives carried for self defense, and a construction worker charged with a weapons charge for a clearly designed carpenter's knife. NYC is very,very knife unfriendly. A small SAK or nonlocking folder will always be your best bet.
 
Do you have any more info on those cases like what knife the transit worker was carrying? Also, what happened with the steak knives? The law clearly states that even with a dagger, dirk, dangerous knife etc. you need to have intent to use harmfully against another and that mere possession is presumptive evidence only if the knife is designed, made, or modified primarily to harm (which a steak knife undeniably is not). Did they say: "I carry it for self-defense", thus making it intent to harm, or something?
 
In the case of the staek knives, there were 4 young men (20s) in a car that was pulled over by the Queens North Task Force for a traffic violation. The officer noted a open box of staek knives and asked why they had them in the car. The men stated they had been harrassed by another group of men and had them for protection. All four were charged with CPW. As for the other SD case it was in all the papers about 8 months back. It was a small sheath knife.
 
tom19176 said:
have you read this:

http://knife-expert.com/ny.txt
Click to expand...

Yep, straight from the horse's mouth too (nys website). Many many times.

charlesbjr said:
Jedidove, are you referring to EDC or sporting (or both)?
Click to expand...

EDC


The way the law sounds, you could even carry a dagger if you could not be proven to have intent to use. There is a stipulation later in the law that says that it is presumptive evidence of intent to use harmfully against another if you are carrying a dagger, dirk, etc. that was primarily designed to harm etc. So, if you never claim self-defense (which is a little stupid since you can specifically carry mace for self-defense) and it was not designed or modified to primarily harm others then you are legally okay. I don't see why it would be difficult to get a statement from most companies saying "this knife is not designed primarily to harm." In fact, I'm almost surprised its not in the paperwork in with warnings and what not. I'd place a wager that if you picked out almost any knife not specifically marketed for defense/fighting and sent an email to the company asking "is this knife designed primarily to cause harm to living things?" you would get a resounding "no". And if there was a legal battle I'd also wager that they would give you a signed statement to stand for legal support.

TOM, I just skimmed through that link again and realized that you were probably referring to the cases at the bottom. I had not seen those and thank you very much for that. They are pretty old but nevertheless:
- "Accused's possession of knife in case attached to his
belt, with long handle protruding and case sheathing blade
concealed inside accused's trousers, did not constitute
violation... absent evidence of design on accused's part
to use the knife unlawfully." (1974)
Click to expand...

One can only hope people still have their heads on this straight...
 
Last edited:
glistam said:
1962? Could be a simple case of Walking While Black.
Click to expand...

Unfortunatley, Bernard Levine didn't include any citation(other than the year) for the case when he put it on his website. I tried to find any documents pertaining to it on both Westlaw and Lexis Nexis to no avail. The only mention of that case is on his site, and in various places that quoted his site.

It would be interesting to get more background on this one. It is a case where some more info will really help give those words more meaning.
 
I would have to think the paint brush was some how sharpened or the painter threated someone with use of it as a weapon? Lets not forget this was the early 1960s, where a judge would not allow someone to be convicted for a simple threat made while waving a paint brush ( today they would call in SWAT!). As for the race thing, any thing is possible, but those cases usally were played out in a unjust beating and a arrest for loitering, dis con and resisting.....Things have gotten both better and worse these days. You will now get arrested for a pen knife and shot with a tazer for no reason, but the beatings and raceism are rare, or so it seems....
 
I live in Suffolk County and regularly carry fixed blades. I suggest you look at the NYS Penal Code (Article 265) to find out more about the legal aspect of knives in NY. You can view the penal code online at http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us
 
Last edited:
Wolf8020, I surpose by living on "Long Island" you mean that you live in Nassau or Suffork county? Don't forget Brooklyn and Queens are on "Long Island" also. When I offer advice, I find it better to say this is the law and it is often enforced this way. Then the person reading it can determine what they would like to risk, and if they have the free time to spend in jail, and if they would like to learn metal crafts (making license plates upstate). Never tell someone you should be ok. What if they are not? Will you bail them out and pay their legal fees? I agree that in Nasau and more so Suffork County, the LEOs are more forgiving about knife law enforcement, but most of the knife laws enforced in NYC are State laws and can be enforced anywhere in NY State. I hate to see good people get in trouble because they thought what they were doing was OK when it infact was illegal.
 
tom19176 said:
Wolf8020, I surpose by living on "Long Island" you mean that you live in Nassau or Suffork county? Don't forget Brooklyn and Queens are on "Long Island" also. When I offer advice, I find it better to say this is the law and it is often enforced this way. Then the person reading it can determine what they would like to risk, and if they have the free time to spend in jail, and if they would like to learn metal crafts (making license plates upstate). Never tell someone you should be ok. What if they are not? Will you bail them out and pay their legal fees? I agree that in Nasau and more so Suffork County, the LEOs are more forgiving about knife law enforcement, but most of the knife laws enforced in NYC are State laws and can be enforced anywhere in NY State. I hate to see good people get in trouble because they thought what they were doing was OK when it infact was illegal.
Click to expand...
He feels protected by his cop buddies. This is fine, but what if he gets arrested in another jurisdiction or even in the same jurisdiction by a cop that does not know him or is not his friend? The Ka-Bar U.S.M.C. knife (if this is the same Ka-Bar that Wolf8020 is carrying) was designed, manufactured and marketed as a combat knife. A DA would have no problem scoring a quick conviction in court for illegal carry/possession. I have seen some very small sheath knives with blades about 3" long and a know a fly-fisherman who routinely carries one on his belt. Even then, with the sheath and all, it is larger than even a 5" folder, while being much less convenient and much harder to conceal. If a cutting job cannot be handled by a 3.5" or 4" folder, it probably should be handled with a hatchet.
 
I've been carrying a BM Nim Cub II for a few weeks now (I live in Nassau). The blade measures in at 3.5" and while there are no concealment laws for Nassau, I do keep it out of sight. Upside down on my belt in the stock sheath on the included malice clip (took off the long extra strip) with the handle in my back pocket and the sheath under my shirt. Its easy to conceal this way, as well as easily accessible.

While it was designed for airborne soldiers, I found no marketing showing that BM designed nor made this knife for use primarily as a weapon. In fact, nutnfancy as a soldier himself said that it is definitely a utility knife, and a damn good one ;), rather than a fighting knife in his review (not that I am taking his opinion to be law). I tried contacting BM support for an official statement on the primary design and make of the knife (under the context of the NY law) but didn't receive a response. Whether that's bad news or not, I don't know. In the future I will probably try to contact them again. Regardless, I'll continue to carry my knife since I feel it is well within the law. With NY's gravity knife interpretation no quality folder (short of a SAK or bali-song) is safe from prosecution.

If anyone has more info on cases and legality, please continue to post. Thank you to those that have already contributed.
 
i would think a spiderco uk-pk would be legal since it is less than 4. " and does not lock. It can be opened with one hand though
 
i was actually wondering if something like the cold steel mini tac tanto kneck knife would be ok
 
ok, ny. NOT nyc. I don't give a damn about nyc which when ever i look for knife laws it always ends up to nyc. so for a response leave nyc 100% OUT of it. i own a sog seal pup elite satin finish with nylon sheath it will have the sog power lock in the pouch. is it legal?
 
Moon Doggy,

I don't think that anyone's dodging the question, it's just that the law is open to interpetation. If someone can argue that the knife is "dangerous", then according to Section 265.15 of the NYS penal code, then "possession...is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another." So, what makes a knife "dangerous"? You see - it's not a black and white issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top