Help Me Pick the Next Fell Beast Steel: Z Tuff Vs. 52100

[Huntsman Knife Co.]

I have a massive run of 100 Fell Beasts underway that will be ready some time in late May and want some feedback on the steel and price-point.

This model is going to be called the Fell Beast Legacy Prime. It builds on the past 10 years of feedback with this model. The Legacy Prime will have similar dimensions to the original but will be made from beefed up .135in stock, will have more highly contoured Terotuf scales, and feature a fuller + higher grind for improved geometry and weight reduction. This thing will SLAP.

In the mean time, I have a small run of heavy 3V Fell Beasts that will be available over the next few weeks.

Over the past 3 years, the cost of everything knife related has gone through the roof. I cannot even make a Fell Beast for what I used to sell one for. Unfortantely, these blades will cost alot more than they used to, BUT you will be getting an overall superior product with the Legacy Prime. With that said, I want to be conscious of cost and always deliver maximum value which is why steel choice is important.

Onto the Steel

We all know 3V is king but I don't want to use it for the Legacy Prime for a few reasons. 1. 3V is insanely expensive in all aspects and using it puts the cost of a Fell Beast Legacy Prime at well over $650 which is just too expensive. 2. 3V has a bad propensity for warpage which is time consuming and difficult to correct and leads to a high scrap rate, further increasing the price. 3. All the extra vanadium can really work against you if you need to sharpen an 18in blade in the field by hand.

With that in mind, the two steels I will be using are good old 52100 and Z Tuff from Zapp.

52100 is my old faithful. It has great edge stability, gets sharp easily, has no HT issues, and with a DHT its tough as hell. Its also affordable. The downside is ZERO stain resistance.

Z tuff is shaping up to be a mega steel for a big blade. It's effectively stainless, has good wear resistance, tops the charts in toughness even at 61+ RC and is simple to heat treat. It's the perfect machete steel. Cost is my only concern. Using Z tuff brings the price up dramatically due to the material cost, blanchard grinding, and extra tooling and finishing costs. I also have to have the sheets custom rolled from Zapp to fit the length of the machete which further adds cost.

I am going to run both 52100 and Z Tuff but I'd love to get some feedback on which steel you guys will prefer so I can order the right quantities.

So cast a vote and let me know which steel you would like. Is the extra performance worth the extra cost to you?

52100 with DHT at $399

Z Tuff at 61+ RC at $549

 

[tinfoil hat timmy]

THAT LOOKS AWESOME

 

[ferider]

Superb design. And ZTuff !

 

[Leviathan Arms]

52100. You have this steel dialed in already and everyone knows it’s amazing blade for the price.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co.]

52100. You have this steel dialed in already and everyone knows it’s amazing blade for the price.

I think the 52100 version will be about the most knife you can get for your money these days.

 

[Currawong]

How does ztuff compare to 3v for edge stability under hard use?

I assume ztuff is overall tougher in regards to major damage (e.g. blade snapping in half), but what about micro damage to the edge when hitting rocks, wire, etc.? I assume the answer comes from a combination of toughness and hardness, and ztuff would probably be run softer.

The best steels (that I know of) to resist micro edge damage (both rolling and chipping) are INFI and D3V. Just wondering how ztuff stacks up.

 

[ferider]

^^^ I like what Larrin said on the subject in an older thread: "With a pure chopping knife it does seem like more wear resistance would be more a hindrance than anything since sharpenability is a significant factor with so much edge to sharpen. At the same time there aren't many knives available in Z-Tuff, with a few more options in 3V."

Would love to try out Z-Tuff, and this design speaks to me, a full-blooded chopper. I'd expect Z-Tuff to be similar to S7, but more stain resistant. Perfect !

 

[Huntsman Knife Co.]

How does ztuff compare to 3v for edge stability under hard use?

I assume ztuff is overall tougher in regards to major damage (e.g. blade snapping in half), but what about micro damage to the edge when hitting rocks, wire, etc.? I assume the answer comes from a combination of toughness and hardness, and ztuff would probably be run softer.

The best steels (that I know of) to resist micro edge damage (both rolling and chipping) are INFI and D3V. Just wondering how ztuff stacks up.

Great to hear from you!

When run with a low temper and at left at higher hardness (61-62RC) Z tuff's edge stability and durability is as good as it gets. It's combination of toughness and hardness is unmatched.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co.]

Here is Z Tuff's composition compared to 3V and A8MOD (what infi likely is based on) + a hardness X toughness chart from Larrin. Z Tuff is very similar to 3V but with less vanadium + the addition of nickel and a touch less carbon for greater toughness. Z tuff was made for dies that needed to take repeated impacts without cracking or deforming.

From the chart, Z tuff has the greatest toughness of any steel ever tested by Larrin even at 61.5RC. While these charts do not directly translate to reality, I think this is a pretty accurate picture.

 

[Currawong]

Now I'm wondering about a Tyrant Bowie made from the .135 z tuff stock you're getting for the fell beasts.

 

[SwarthyGnome]

Now I'm wondering about a Tyrant Bowie made from the .135 z tuff stock you're getting for the fell beasts.

I am looking forward to the Tyrant Bowie most of all.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co.]

Now I'm wondering about a Tyrant Bowie made from the .135 z tuff stock you're getting for the fell beasts.

I am looking forward to the Tyrant Bowie most of all.

Tyrant Bowie is up next! Im going to start working on the prototype with my CNC guy.

.135 would probably be too thin for a Tyrant Bowie but dont give me any ideas

 

[Currawong]

Tyrant Bowie is up next! Im going to start working on the prototype with my CNC guy.

.135 would probably be too thin for a Tyrant Bowie but dont give me any ideas

We like it when you have ideas !

 

[PolRoger]

52100 is a long time classic knife steel but I'm glad that you are also thinking of running some in Z-Tuff.

 

[Currawong]

If you were to do something like this (same length but shorter height - overlaid in green on top of the original design in pink), in .135 z-tuff, would that work? Minus the fuller if the stock is too thin for it. Don't want to mess with your design but this has just captured my imagination.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co.]

If you were to do something like this (same length but shorter height - overlaid in green on top of the original design in pink), in .135 z-tuff, would that work? Minus the fuller if the stock is too thin for it. Don't want to mess with your design but this has just captured my imagination.

Love it man. I probably wouldnt take the grind that high but this is where Z tuff will really shine, it can take an ultra thin apex.

Let me see if its possible to cut one of these and send to you. You know, for research purposes.

 

[Private Klink]

I'm relatively new to this particular forum, but I have to say that is an awesome design.

 

[Currawong]

I'm a big fan of research !!
I'd love to take one of those 'out bush' and put it to the test.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co.]

I'm a big fan of research !!
I'd love to take one of those 'out bush' and put it to the test.

This is the feedback I need! If this steel with a thin grind can survive the Australian Outback, It can survive anything

 

[ferider]

So, when is the pre-order ? (for Z-tuff)