I trust these knives !!!

allenC said:
Since I didn't get any answers when I first posted it, I think it's worth asking again....



I'm serious....exactly what survival related tasks do you think might break a knife?
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Prying the husk off a coconut , no joke , it flexes the blade on my HSS knives a bit , enough I wonder if they are really as brittle as the nay sayers would have people believe ... so far no failures tho

I was prying oysters off rocks with a stainless folder and the tip broke off , now its a reprofiled folder , that doesnt get used for prying ..

poking around in kneejoints on bigger game ( feral cows ) trying to find the tendons when Im having a clumsy moment has actually caused a tip failure or two ...

I have taken chips out of tips boring holes in timber making fancy shelters , and rolled edges trying to whittle stuff that was a tad heavy for the knife being used ....

its not abusive stuff , just working normal , stuff Id do in survival or normal living circumstances
 
Myal said:
for me , any of these:

100_5035knifes.jpg

...one is even home made...
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Let me tell you that I like the homemade one... what did you use for the blade? Seems like a saw blade of some kind. I saw a few videos of Greenpete using old files to craft them and they looked thick and realiable. How thick is yours?
I am thinking about doing one myself (maybe even get fancy and try to do some canvas micarta as well...) and I am looking for blade material.

Mikel
 
Its only thin , about 1/8"thick , it was an all hard high speed steel Starret power hacksaw blade , about a yard long in its last life .

A file wont work it , its too hard , I did all the shaping and bevels with a 5 inch angle grinder .

Its weird steel , a rockwell in excess of 60 I believe , but its got plenty flex in it , its not brittle at all .. I could rave about it for ages :) its seriously good stuff but way way over-spec for a knife , holds like nothing Ive handled yet ... awesome stuff , the saw on the back was made for cutting steel bar all day every day ... it works a treat as a handsaw cutting 4x2 or firewood ... one of the ugliest but most useful things I made yet :)
 
just one catch , its a bugga to drill , I cant do it , not even cobalt tip drills will touch it , the steel is too hard , that is why I glued the handles on with windshield adhesive .. its got flex too and holds on pretty dam good
 
Myal said:
just one catch , its a bugga to drill , I cant do it , not even cobalt tip drills will touch it , the steel is too hard , that is why I glued the handles on with windshield adhesive .. its got flex too and holds on pretty dam good
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That is exactly what I was thinking while reading your previous post... Being the steel so hard it has to be bitch to drill and grind! :D

When I saw Greenpete's video he first heated the steel to cherry red and let it cool of slowly so it become soft and workable. He machined it, shaped it, etc... and then hardened it again (heat to cherry red and then cool it off fast in oil).

I guess that the steel you used has some kind of heat treat that can not be duplicated at home... so you just machined it the best you could as it is. Good job!

Mikel
 
I dont know how to begin to heat treat the stuff , at the time I was green as when it came to making knives , so I kept it cools and worked slow , since then I found out the steel takes some serious heat and has no apparent loss of hardness or flexability , its weird stuff , but makes serious blades :)

Now Im gunna go google Greenpete and see what I can learn
 
skammer said:
Allen how about you list all the tasks you feel would not break a knife while in a survival situation.

Skam
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I can't think of a single task that I would need to do in order to survive that would break my knife.

Let's see....I'm in the forest (or desert) and I need shelter:
Well, I've built countless shelters before and I've never broken a knife while making them.
In fact, I often don't even need a knife to make a shelter.

Okay, I've made my shelter and now I would like a fire:
Well, I've created many many fires in my lifetime, and again, I've never even came close to breaking a knife while building one.

Okay, I've got shelter and a fire, now I would like some water:
Maybe a stream or pond is nearby, or maybe it's just morning dew to drink....but I can't see breaking a knife while collecting water.

Okay, I've got shelter, a fire, and some water....I guess it's time to get something to eat:
Fishing, making traps and snares, making weapons for hunting....I've did all of that before and I've never even come close to breaking a knife.


I could go on and on, but let's be honest; for survival, the chances of a knowledgable person breaking their knife is practically "0".

In fact, a knowledgable person will not willingly risk breaking their knife in a survival situation.
A knowledgable person would know the value of a knife in such a situation.
 
Myal said:
Prying the husk off a coconut , no joke , it flexes the blade on my HSS knives a bit , enough I wonder if they are really as brittle as the nay sayers would have people believe ... so far no failures tho

I was prying oysters off rocks with a stainless folder and the tip broke off , now its a reprofiled folder , that doesnt get used for prying ..

poking around in kneejoints on bigger game ( feral cows ) trying to find the tendons when Im having a clumsy moment has actually caused a tip failure or two ...

I have taken chips out of tips boring holes in timber making fancy shelters , and rolled edges trying to whittle stuff that was a tad heavy for the knife being used ....

its not abusive stuff , just working normal , stuff Id do in survival or normal living circumstances
Click to expand...

This sounds like a perfect argument for a multi-tool instead of a single-blade knife.
 
allenC said:
I can't think of a single task that I would need to do in order to survive that would break my knife.

Let's see....I'm in the forest (or desert) and I need shelter:
Well, I've built countless shelters before and I've never broken a knife while making them.
In fact, I often don't even need a knife to make a shelter.

Okay, I've made my shelter and now I would like a fire:
Well, I've created many many fires in my lifetime, and again, I've never even came close to breaking a knife while building one.

Okay, I've got shelter and a fire, now I would like some water:
Maybe a stream or pond is nearby, or maybe it's just morning dew to drink....but I can't see breaking a knife while collecting water.

Okay, I've got shelter, a fire, and some water....I guess it's time to get something to eat:
Fishing, making traps and snares, making weapons for hunting....I've did all of that before and I've never even come close to breaking a knife.


I could go on and on, but let's be honest; for survival, the chances of a knowledgable person breaking their knife is practically "0".

In fact, a knowledgable person will not willingly risk breaking their knife in a survival situation.
A knowledgable person would know the value of a knife in such a situation.
Click to expand...

But dude, what if a boulder rolls onto your leg? You NEED to carry an indestructible prybar so you can use it as a lever. :rolleyes:
 
allenC said:
I can't think of a single task that I would need to do in order to survive that would break my knife.

Let's see....I'm in the forest (or desert) and I need shelter:
Well, I've built countless shelters before and I've never broken a knife while making them.
In fact, I often don't even need a knife to make a shelter.

Okay, I've made my shelter and now I would like a fire:
Well, I've created many many fires in my lifetime, and again, I've never even came close to breaking a knife while building one.

Okay, I've got shelter and a fire, now I would like some water:
Maybe a stream or pond is nearby, or maybe it's just morning dew to drink....but I can't see breaking a knife while collecting water.

Okay, I've got shelter, a fire, and some water....I guess it's time to get something to eat:
Fishing, making traps and snares, making weapons for hunting....I've did all of that before and I've never even come close to breaking a knife.


I could go on and on, but let's be honest; for survival, the chances of a knowledgable person breaking their knife is practically "0".

In fact, a knowledgable person will not willingly risk breaking their knife in a survival situation.
A knowledgable person would know the value of a knife in such a situation.
Click to expand...


I can't back this up now due to lack of that damn search function but I have seen previously where some were out camping and broke a Cold steel Trailmaster tring to baton some wood when it was cold, then there was someone who broke his WSK predator chopping some wood and someone also broke their Benchmade RANT, can't remember how though......but suffice to say these things do happen and they were all pretty sturdy knives !
 
pitdog said:
I can't back this up now due to lack of that damn search function but I have seen previously where some were out camping and broke a Cold steel Trailmaster tring to baton some wood when it was cold, then there was someone who broke his WSK predator chopping some wood and someone also broke their Benchmade RANT, can't remember how though......but suffice to say these things do happen and they were all pretty sturdy knives !
Click to expand...
Oh, I don't doubt that folks have broken knives when out in the wilderness.
But my point is really this: why risk your knife doing something that you know might break it (like batoning a piece of frozen lumber)?
There is always a better way or an alternative method without breaking your survival knife.
 
pitdog said:
I can't back this up now due to lack of that damn search function but I have seen previously where some were out camping and broke a Cold steel Trailmaster tring to baton some wood when it was cold, then there was someone who broke his WSK predator chopping some wood and someone also broke their Benchmade RANT, can't remember how though......but suffice to say these things do happen and they were all pretty sturdy knives !
Click to expand...

You can also add the forumite who snapped his RAT-7 (D2 if you wonder) while battoning it. Seems like it was some kind of heat treat problem.

Mikel
 
Hang_them_later said:
You said "you could break the handle off in one or two wacks".
I also grew up using Moras. I think you will find it hard to break of the handle in one wack, fatigued or not.
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Perhaps a stretch, but even batoning through a couple of branches could do it especially with an older knife.
I was thinking how on the old wooden handle Moras the handle would come loose over time, I doubt they would last more then a couple of wacks. To be fair as an adult it would be unlikely that I would carry a Mora in that condition.
If you read the link I posted you would see that even a brand new Mora showed signs that it would break in less then a dozen hits when it was held at the wrong angle when batoning
 
runningboar said:
Let me see if I have this right; you are so hypothermic and fatigued that you can not use a small knife such as a mora correctly, to the extent that it may even break. However you still retain enough dexterity to gather and prepare tinder and to manipulate a lighter, matches or a fire steel? Chris

:confused:
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You're reading something not there.
When fatigued or hypothermic you are not always thinking at your best so lack of concentration can cause you to make little mistakes such as not holding the knife at the proper angle that could cause breakage while batoning.
Nothing to do with dexterity in my post or lack of physical ability to hold a knife

Did you read the link on batoning, it shows how even a good knife can be broken during batoning

As I said I have my reasons for choosing the knives I do, if you are comforatable using your knives good on you.
 
Ron53 said:
pitdog and coyotebc,

Actually, if you re-read most of these posts, you will find that most all of us got your point. And it doesn't take living in a temperate rain forest (in which I've spent a fair amount of time) to understand the need for good edged tools and the possibility of hypothermia. Believe me, we're with you on this one! Please don't fall into an elitist "we're from the Northwest, and you don't understand" attitude! I know that is not what you mean to do here. I don't think you will find a soul here who would be happy going into the temperate rain forest, desert, mountains or jungle with a $5 Chinese special! We WOULD be content going into these areas with cutlery that is tough and able to handle the tasks at hand.

Ron
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Ron
Not an eltist at all, was just trying to explain why I choose the knife I do, and given that Pitdog lives in a similiar region it may explain why we choose similiar knives.
I have never camped in a desert, so the only thing I know about them are second hand. For those of you that camp/hike in deserts, Florida swamps or other regions may have very good reasons for choosing different knives. If I lived north of the artic circle and I knew that I would not be batoning through the non-existing forest then perhaps again my choice would be different.

No doubt using proper technique I have and could continue to baton Moras through wood. With lousy technique I could probably break the handle off of a dumpster mutt while batoning. Based on my expierence with breaking Moras as a kid (yes it was over time and doing things I shouldn't have such as throwing them, and breaking them with improper batoning technique) and have been in a situation where I was in the early stages of hypothermia, I feel more comfortable with a robust knife.

The same reason that I prefer a hatchet or axe when camping/hiking over a machete, while for different regions a machete is a much better choice then the axe.
 
coyotebc said:
So you read the question different then I do. You seem to think that you have other tools available in the question. I am thinking you don't.

No problem
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I didn't give the origional post that much thought but yeah I guess I was implying what blade you would rely on when the chips were down and that was your only tool remaining !!!
I guess I'd rather be over knifed than under knifed and relying totally on good technique and wit !
 
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