I was afraid this would happen with the new steels CS is using...

They are far from outrageous if you compare them with other brands. Spend some time in the Benchmade or Emerson forums, for example, and you'll feel much better about these prices. The thing is, with these upgrades, CS is giving us comparable quality to these other brands, but at a very affordable price point.

G. Scott H. said:
I think CS will gain many more customers and fans with these changes than they will lose. I've never been one of those calling for CS to upgrade their steel, but now that they have, I can live with it. I'm also willing to entertain the possibility that I'll like the new steels (XHP in particular) even more than AUS-8. I don't know that I'll replace any of my AUS-8 stuff with the same models in BD-1 or XHP, but I'll certainly be buying some of their new models in the new steels. The prices of the new stuff have increased, sure, but I don't think they're outrageous by any means.
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jonnyfgroove said:
IMO, they will need to step up the F&F with these higher prices too. I just got a Recon 1 XL at a great price. However, the knife needs to be taken apart and dialed in right out of the box. Super gritty, crunchy lock, even for a new tri ad. Rattling stop pin and blade closed pin (whatever it's called). Loose pivot screw with no loctite. I'm fine fixing these things with what I paid, but if this had been a $150 knife I would probably just send it back and look elsewhere.
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jonnyfgroove said:
I guess I have bad luck then.
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Yes, apparently you do. None of my CS folders has had any of those problems, let alone all of them in one knife!

Neomentat said:
Now CS is in direct competition price wise with some really big name knife companies and that's where the problem comes in.
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You mean companies with "really big names" among Forumites, right? I can assure you that outside of these forums, no one has ever heard of most of the knife companies that we consider household names. Cold Steel is one of the largest, best-selling knife companies in the world. Very few others come close to approaching Cold Steel's sales volume. Their products are the standard against which many people judge knives, and they established the industry high-water marks of knife performance. When it comes to large knives, both folders and fixed, CS has absolutely no competition.

Just because many people on this forum have a prejudice against Cold Steel, it doesn't mean that's the way things are in the real world.

Neomentat said:
For the same amount of money for a CS with new steel, I can purchase a variety of knives with better fit and finish, made in USA, and much better customer service.
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Please name some of these knives, as I'll gladly consider purchasing them. All of the comparable USA-made knives I've seen lately have been significantly more expensive. And, as sad as it makes me to admit it, their fit and finish hasn't been demonstrably better than any of Cold Steel's Tawainese knives.

I can't speak to Cold Steel's customer service, as I've never needed it.

-Steve
 
The Whip said:
Yes, apparently you do. None of my CS folders has had any of those problems, let alone all of them in one knife! -Steve
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The knife is a perfect freakin' beast now after a disassembly and about 5 minutes of TLC. Not a big deal. I agree, none of my other CS tri ad folders have come like that, the QC seems to be very good over all. I stand by what I said though, I would have been pretty annoyed if it were a $150 knife.
 
The Whip said:
You mean companies with "really big names" among Forumites, right? I can assure you that outside of these forums, no one has ever heard of most of the knife companies that we consider household names. Cold Steel is one of the largest, best-selling knife companies in the world. Very few others come close to approaching Cold Steel's sales volume. Their products are the standard against which many people judge knives, and they established the industry high-water marks of knife performance. When it comes to large knives, both folders and fixed, CS has absolutely no competition.
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I'm just curious, do you have figures to back this up? I mean, I love Cold Steel, but it is NOT Cold Steel I see in stores around here. I can go to lots of big name stores, Walmart, Academy Sports & Outdoors, Cabelas, etc, and I see lots of Kershaw(including ZT at some places), lots of Buck, some SOG and Gerber, plus some crappy Winchester/Smith & Wesson brand stuff...but NO Cold Steel. Hell, there's not a single store that sells knives around here that carries Spyderco, Cold Steel, or Benchmade, unless it's a specific knife store like House of Blades. Kershaw, Buck, and SOG otoh I can find pretty much anywhere. Cold Steel, I have to go online, same as I do with Spyderco or Condor.
 
I'm hoping for a TrailMaster in 3V. :thumbup:

Comparing MSRP on a "new" steel model to closeout prices on "old" discontinued stuff is just silly. Comparing likely/actual retail prices on them to similar models made with the same or similar-level steel from other companies... I gotta say, the "new" CS stuff looks like pretty dang good bargains to me.

bld522 said:
People were complaining that CS wasn't keeping up with the competition because they were using an inferior alloy (AUS-8). Now they're complaining that CS is too expensive because they've upgraded their alloy (CTS-XHP). You can't have it both ways, boys and girls. There is no free lunch.
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Right... and that's not even taking into account using US-made steels and/or American labor instead of imports.

RevDevil said:
CTS-XHP is a vast improvement over AUS8. The price is bound to change...
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Indeed. The same properties that makes these steels perform better in the finished product, also make them more expensive to begin with, and a lot more expensive to machine, grind and heat-treat.

People very often forget the whole manufacturing part of the equation. This stuff doesn't just magically "happen" ;)
 
I'm a long time spyderco fan, but just picked up a recon in xhp. It's really solid, sharp out of the box, nice handle, DLC (best coating available, although I would prefer uncoated) and you get all that for about $100. I think that is a great deal!
 
jonnyfgroove said:
The knife is a perfect freakin' beast now after a disassembly and about 5 minutes of TLC. Not a big deal. I agree, none of my other CS tri ad folders have come like that, the QC seems to be very good over all. I stand by what I said though, I would have been pretty annoyed if it were a $150 knife.
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Glad to hear that your experience with the Recon XL was not representative, and that you're enjoying the knife. I think it's a great model.

DShiflet said:
I'm just curious, do you have figures to back this up?
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Figures? No, I'm not a Cold Steel sales representative. But I do pay attention to the market. You will find very few brick-and-mortar or online knife dealers (as opposed to general retail or sporting goods marts, as you mention) that do not carry Cold Steel. Dealers don't tend to stock brands that don't sell well.

DShiflet said:
I mean, I love Cold Steel, but it is NOT Cold Steel I see in stores around here. I can go to lots of big name stores, Walmart, Academy Sports & Outdoors, Cabelas, etc, and I see lots of Kershaw(including ZT at some places), lots of Buck, some SOG and Gerber, plus some crappy Winchester/Smith & Wesson brand stuff...but NO Cold Steel. Hell, there's not a single store that sells knives around here that carries Spyderco, Cold Steel, or Benchmade, unless it's a specific knife store like House of Blades. Kershaw, Buck, and SOG otoh I can find pretty much anywhere. Cold Steel, I have to go online, same as I do with Spyderco or Condor.
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Your observations actually help to make my point. Gerber, Buck, Kershaw, and SOG may indeed sell more knives among the general public than Cold Steel, but they are not really considered Cold Steel's competition, especially among Blade Forum members. The other brands you didn't see--Al Mar, Benchmade, Spyderco, Emerson, Zero Tolerance (I know you ran into a few), CRKT, and maybe even Hogue, Microtech, HTM--these are deemed Cold Steel's competition. And Cold Steel certainly sells as well as any of these. Cold Steel also makes knives that are the equal of, or better than, knives made by any of these makers.

What ruffles me a little is an increasingly pervasive attitude here in the Forums implying that now that Cold Steel has made improvements to its blade alloy selection (a practice they've adhere to throughout the company's existence), they're finally in the "Big Leagues." It's the equivalent of General Motors producing a carbon-fiber-body sports car and people responding by saying, "Now GM is finally in the Big Leagues!" I hate to break it to people who don't know their knife history, but Cold Steel has always been in the Big Leagues.

As just one example, look at longevity. Here's a quick rundown of founding dates for the companies mentioned.

Gerber 1939
Buck 1961
Kershaw 1974
Al Mar 1979
Benchmade (formed as Bali-Song) 1979
Cold Steel 1980
Spyderco (as a knife company) 1981
SOG 1986
CRKT 1994
Microtech 1994
Emerson 1996
Zero Tolerance 2006
Hogue 2009
HTM 2009

Many companies have come and gone within these years, too. You don't survive as long as Cold Steel has by resting on your laurels. I personally don't think Cold Steel has ever demonstrated a willingness to do so, regardless of what steel they are using in their knives.

-Steve
 
The Whip said:
Your observations actually help to make my point. Gerber, Buck, Kershaw, and SOG may indeed sell more knives among the general public than Cold Steel, but they are not really considered Cold Steel's competition, especially among Blade Forum members. The other brands you didn't see--Al Mar, Benchmade, Spyderco, Emerson, Zero Tolerance (I know you ran into a few), CRKT, and maybe even Hogue, Microtech, HTM--these are deemed Cold Steel's competition. And Cold Steel certainly sells as well as any of these. Cold Steel also makes knives that are the equal of, or better than, knives made by any of these makers.

What ruffles me a little is an increasingly pervasive attitude here in the Forums implying that now that Cold Steel has made improvements to its blade alloy selection (a practice they've adhere to throughout the company's existence), they're finally in the "Big Leagues." It's the equivalent of General Motors producing a carbon-fiber-body sports car and people responding by saying, "Now GM is finally in the Big Leagues!" I hate to break it to people who don't know their knife history, but Cold Steel has always been in the Big Leagues.
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Actually most people on these forums consider Kershaw superior to Cold Steel, Cold Steel's competition on these forums usually ARE considered the non-higher end knives-Buck, SOG, Gerber, and so on-knives that are cheaper, and don't tend to use high end materials. I do not, but actually, yes, the companies I listed are generally seen as more of Cold Steel's competition, the ones you listed(other than CRKT) are generally seen as their superiors(true or not).

You're right that you won't find a dedicated knife store that doesn't carry CS, but not sure how that helps your case, as you won't find a dedicated knife store that doesn't carry Spyderco, Kershaw/ZT, Buck, Benchmade, etc either. Dedicated knife stores carry most brands, the truly BIG knife companies, the ones who really top the sales, are the ones who are sold EVERYWHERE.
 
DShiflet said:
Actually most people on these forums consider Kershaw superior to Cold Steel, Cold Steel's competition on these forums usually ARE considered the non-higher end knives-Buck, SOG, Gerber, and so on-knives that are cheaper, and don't tend to use high end materials. I do not, but actually, yes, the companies I listed are generally seen as more of Cold Steel's competition, the ones you listed(other than CRKT) are generally seen as their superiors(true or not).
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OK, we'll just have to disagree on this point. Based on everything I've seen over the years, Cold Steel's biggest folding-knife competitors are Spyderco, Benchmade, Al Mar, and Emerson, and occasionally SOG and CRKT in certain markets such as post exchanges.

To bring this back on topic, the bigger message that I'm trying to convey is that anyone who thinks that Cold Steel's use of AUS-8A as a blade steel has been holding them back from being a giant in the knife community is seriously deluded about Cold Steel's status within the industry.

-Steve
 
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Just found a new Mini-Lawman for $80 at Blade Hq. $30 increase from the Aus 8 model and still made in Taiwan.
 
I'll probably buy my first cs folder simply because they have changed to a premium stainless steel. Ive always wanted a holdout but won't buy a aus8 blade for any more than $10.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Then you had to have seen the new Code 4s, which are only $14.45 more than the AUS8 model and now feature XHP.
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I didn't notice it but that would be a good deal for someone looking for a Code 4. I'm not sure why this type of pricing isn't seen throughout the CS line. I would be all over the new mini-lawman if that was the case. I can't see paying $80 for one knowing I can get a Spyderco Manix 2 in S110V for $20 more.
 
I'm kind of excited about the Master Hunter in 3v. The San Mia III version is $ 95.95 the 3v is $99.95
I like VG-1 San Mia III steel but will gladly pay the four extra bucks for 3v.

That doesn't leave much competition for a fixed blade that size with anything near 3v for under a hundred bucks.
Sure, the handle isn't Micarta but I like the feel and grip of it and the sheath is well done. In my opinion, the San Mia version was already the best bang for the buck in that size range. Now in 3v it is an unbeatable deal.
 
Bushido185 said:
I didn't notice it but that would be a good deal for someone looking for a Code 4. I'm not sure why this type of pricing isn't seen throughout the CS line. I would be all over the new mini-lawman if that was the case. I can't see paying $80 for one knowing I can get a Spyderco Manix 2 in S110V for $20 more.
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I hear you. I think $80 is a bit steep, but I think a more fair comparison in size, steel, country of origin, etc. is the Chaparral 1. The Chaparral is a bit spendier, but nets you a much more gentlemanly folder, which I think is a bit more fitting for a folder that size, and given the immaculate fit and finish on Taichung Spydies, it will likely be a more refined buy all around.

I would compare the Manix 2 you mentioned to the full-sized Lawman or the Code 4. Manix 2 still wins for me, but the Cold Steels stack up against as well or better than anything else on the market that I know of.

TL;DR I think the Mini Lawman is a pricier than I would like to see it, but it's not really much pricier than the competition.
 
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