- Joined
- Feb 21, 2015
- Messages
- 131
Problem here is that we buy C.S products at double the price. Now it would be impossible to acquire a C.S.products for the foreign market. Tariffs are killing us.
I was afraid this would happen with the new steels CS is using...
- Thread starter Bushido185
- Start date
I am very excited about some of these changes. While some of them might be more expensive, the performance increase alone would lure me in. A Trailmaster and SRK in 3V would probably be my ultimate knife combination for the woods. And looking at the combination of Triad lock and XHP is making CS very, very attractive. I've got a ton (my wife says too many) CS knives from the early 90's, and went to other brands, but this re-kindled my interest.
If that's how you meant it, fine. How it came across though was like you were mocking the guy because he asked for some variety in colors.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2015
- Messages
- 74
Just picked up a new CS Code 4 clip point in XHP. Excited to see how it performs. I am glad CS made the change from AUS8, although I never had major problems with it. Even with a moderate price increase, I think the value proposition of many of their models will increase with the new steel.
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2015
- Messages
- 131
Honestly can any of you guys tell the difference between steels? What I mean is, could you tell the difference between an Aus8a and other steel just by performance, without being aware which one is which? You be like "Aw this cuts great and has cut three times better than this other it certainly is a s30v and the other should be a 440c!" I know that you are going to say " yes" but the difference in performance among steels is not that easy to tell.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 824
You wouldn't know in immediate cutting, because as long as it reaches a decent hardness you can put the same edge angle on any steel and it'll cut. Edge stability and edge retention are testable after you've made that first cut, and the second, and the third and the hundredth. If a steel is too soft it'll roll and deform, if it is too hard it'll chip. The ideal is a tough steel with a good hardness, 3V at 61HRC for example, which should hold an edge for a long time, and also resist impact so you can chop with it.
In a sense it's not that important, because lets face it our ancestors managed for thousands of years with simple carbon steels and a sharpening stone, but if you have the opportunity to avail yourself of modern steels why not?
In a sense it's not that important, because lets face it our ancestors managed for thousands of years with simple carbon steels and a sharpening stone, but if you have the opportunity to avail yourself of modern steels why not?
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2015
- Messages
- 131
Thank you Freman, very good point. I concur. A high end steel, as awesome as it is, doesn't make a decent steel such as Aus8a or 440c bad. But if you have the chance of a steel upgrade, why not? I'm afraid that the knife world will turn into an " Elite consumers "rRealm tho.
Heh... Umm...you mean it hasn't? LOL
Well, yes, I can tell which one starts to noticeably dull in a week, and which one goes a month before it starts to dull doing the same work. I would assume most people can tell that difference, it's pretty easy.
Check out Ankerson's Steel comparison thread. You'll find the difference between some of the top steels and AUS 8A isn't 2 or 3 times better, but 15 times better. And 4 to 8 times better than S30V. It's almost impossible NOT to tell the difference. That top knife also sharpens up much faster than any AUS 8A knife I've ever used, and I have a lot of those as well.
I was using some 12C27 in my garage cutting some wood, and I hit a knot. Rather than bending or rolling, I had some chips taken out of it. I purposely ran one of my CPM 3V knives through the same knot and half a dozen more, and no damage. There are advantages to stronger steels.
You are right, AUS 8A doesn't suddenly become a *bad* steel, it's just that our baseline has changed. I still have and use my AUS 8A knives (and O1, 1095, etc.), it's just that my expectations are more realistic now. I also find that my steels that hold an edge a long time are much easier to sharpen than the steels that dull quickly. Part of that is due to the lack of burring (or minimal burring), and the fact that these knives are also much thinner, so there's less metal to remove.
I'm finding that edge thickness contributes more to length of sharpening than the type of steel does. Hardness too. The harder the knife, the less burring I"m seeing, and the faster it sharpens. YMMV.
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2015
- Messages
- 131
Great thread, I can see your points in each one of your comments and as opinions as they may be are well supported by facts. Still Aus8a, 12c27, 440c, and all other " workhorse" steels offer a great deal of performance at a low cost
Amazing. CS upgrades their steel and pricing remains competitive compared to other knife makers, yet some people still complain.
Let's take a look at the aforementioned Black Talon II compared to the Spyderco Civilian:
Superior CTS-XHP Steel, Thumb plate assist instead of the Bird's eye assist, Superior Tri-Ad lock, Superior G10 Handle with better, deeper finger grooves, Thumb Jimping, 4-way pocket clip provision, lower price, Same weight, blade length, blade design, etc...and probably dual, skeletonized liners.
All of these are improvements over the Civilian, which I happen to own and I will buy the CS BT II the minute it becomes available.
I like the Civilian, but it leaves a lot to be desired and is way overpriced. CS brought this knife up to date in both design and materials while costing about 1/3 less.
Yet people are complaining when the street price of the dated Civilian is about $160.00 while the street price for the Black Talon II is about $110.00
Not only that, but the BT II is by far a superior knife.
Maybe the complainers should start looking at the Frost Cutlery line or the BUDK catalog.
BTW, there are some fantastic close-out deals on the CS AUS-8A knives, so get them while you can.
Let's take a look at the aforementioned Black Talon II compared to the Spyderco Civilian:
Superior CTS-XHP Steel, Thumb plate assist instead of the Bird's eye assist, Superior Tri-Ad lock, Superior G10 Handle with better, deeper finger grooves, Thumb Jimping, 4-way pocket clip provision, lower price, Same weight, blade length, blade design, etc...and probably dual, skeletonized liners.
All of these are improvements over the Civilian, which I happen to own and I will buy the CS BT II the minute it becomes available.
I like the Civilian, but it leaves a lot to be desired and is way overpriced. CS brought this knife up to date in both design and materials while costing about 1/3 less.
Yet people are complaining when the street price of the dated Civilian is about $160.00 while the street price for the Black Talon II is about $110.00
Not only that, but the BT II is by far a superior knife.
Maybe the complainers should start looking at the Frost Cutlery line or the BUDK catalog.
BTW, there are some fantastic close-out deals on the CS AUS-8A knives, so get them while you can.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2013
- Messages
- 463
And they're still the strongest production knives around in my opinion. Everyone was complaining they were using AUS 8a when better steels became available, but even then the way they were their processing of it made it the absolute best AUS 8a on the market. The only complaint i can see for this company is that lynn thompson is a bit of a mall ninja.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2011
- Messages
- 26,532
Sure.......when i have to reprofile that's when i notice the most. Geometry and blade deisgn means more to me than which super steel. That said i got a recon 1 in xhp and its a darn good knife so far. Do i like it better than my aus8 version......not really. They both work and an occasional sharpening back to sharp isn't a big deal. When i have to reprofile that is when i love aus8 over xhp or any other super steel.
Dave Hunnicutt
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2000
- Messages
- 46
Lynn a mall ninja? You have got to be kidding. He is a martial artist and a hunter. He is out there in the real world improving and testing his skills.
I took his two day knife course. He is the real deal. He is opinionated. I respect people who have the courage to state their opinions.
I took his two day knife course. He is the real deal. He is opinionated. I respect people who have the courage to state their opinions.
Yeah, "Mall Ninja's" don't hunt wild Buffalo with a Spear like LT does:
[video=youtube;FKI1xmtf5Ck]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKI1xmtf5Ck[/video]
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2013
- Messages
- 463
lol I know lynn really does train and is an accomplished martial artist, but honestly all "knife fighting" training is practically useless, people on the streets don't knife fight, they murder you as quickly as possible. When i see anybody post videos on knife fighting, regardless of whether it's legitimately applied to "knife fighting" where they're basically mini sword fighting, I stop taking the lesson seriously.
This:[video=youtube;pKoxYw4JyVM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKoxYw4JyVM[/video]
Defending yourself during a knife attack is more about not getting cut and disabling the attack rather than sparring see:
[video=youtube;tEFohAsvfPQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEFohAsvfPQ[/video]
Realistically though, if the only weapon your attacker has is a knife the best self defense is running, if backed into a corner, techniques to disarm or minimize damage are best. As a weapon, knives are really useful for cutting an attacker off you that's pinned you down, or firearm retention. Not much else, and they're definitely not mini-swords. Knife wounds can be more deadly than guns over time, leading to rapid blood loss, however most of the time unless you are carrying a very large knife and hitting the right spots they aren't immediately disabling, and their wounds on an attacker or even defender often go unnoticed until the aftermath.
Last edited:
Dave Hunnicutt
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2000
- Messages
- 46
I agree. Knife vs. knife is extremely rare. However, this type of training does have a purpose. It teaches a person distance, timing, and angles of attack. If I am unarmed, I can expect the attacker to stab sewing machine style. Knowing how to defend a #5 attack is the only hope you have. If you have trained knife fighting, you will have the ability to see this attack early.
I frequently carry a Rajah II. This knife is in a whole different class than a Spyderco Endura in terms of having stopping power.
I watched about 30 seconds of the Krav video. Completely unrealistic.
Good training (not that crap Krav video) can be useful if a person knows the realistic applications. I have a black belt in BJJ. BJJ is not the last word on fighting. And, I know I don't want to ground fight in a crowded bar. But, sh*t happens and I could end up there. Guess what? My BJJ training will get me back on my feet faster than someone who doesn't have a clue about groundfighting.
Lynn has studied more than just knife fighting.
I frequently carry a Rajah II. This knife is in a whole different class than a Spyderco Endura in terms of having stopping power.
I watched about 30 seconds of the Krav video. Completely unrealistic.
Good training (not that crap Krav video) can be useful if a person knows the realistic applications. I have a black belt in BJJ. BJJ is not the last word on fighting. And, I know I don't want to ground fight in a crowded bar. But, sh*t happens and I could end up there. Guess what? My BJJ training will get me back on my feet faster than someone who doesn't have a clue about groundfighting.
Lynn has studied more than just knife fighting.
Last edited:
I forced myself to watch 5 minutes of that Krav Maga video. It was tough. If the attacker (man with knife) had any, including a normal adult male, level of strength the defender's (man without knife) techniques would be far less than effective. In many of the techniques a stronger grip on the knife would have resulted in severe cuts to the defender, if not total failure to disarm the attacker. In all the techniques I watched a mediocre knowledge of body movement and grappling would have nullified the disarming techniques.
I don't know the demonstrator's credentials. Maybe he is a seasoned, decorated Israeli military operator and I have no place to say what I've said. I also know that the wrestling, and relatively small amount of knife and boxing training, I have would allow me to counter the defenses he showed in the first 5 minutes. If I am right then those techniques are ineffective.
Last edited:
Dave Hunnicutt
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2000
- Messages
- 46
The problem with Krav and other combatives is that you can't test them against a fully resisting partner. If you haven't done the technique against someone resisting your attempt to do it, you can't trust it. It is a fantasy based art.
That is why boxers are so tough. It is a reality based art. There are no simulated fights. They fight. Getting hit in the face causes a person to get rid of the BS techniques real fast. Same with grappling. You can do it full speed against someone else going full speed. You train until the point of submission of your opponent.
That is why boxers are so tough. It is a reality based art. There are no simulated fights. They fight. Getting hit in the face causes a person to get rid of the BS techniques real fast. Same with grappling. You can do it full speed against someone else going full speed. You train until the point of submission of your opponent.