Kizer T1 experience?

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ktataragasi said:
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Well @Kizer Cutlery you guys really did a fantastic job with these! I hope you continue to use this platform for many new versions. Please use this platform like you do with the feist or sheepdog series.
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With a better steel without coating, and with G10 scales it would be very nice.
 
chempe said:
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With a better steel without coating, and with G10 scales it would be very nice.
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Kizer is actually known for their 154cm. I could do without the coating also. The micarta on this knife is probably some of the nicest I have seen on any knife regardless of price. I am hoping to see more versions in the future though.
 
chempe said:
... With a better steel without coating, and with G10 scales it would be very nice.
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I agree on the coating. I prefer to see steel.

I don't have experience with Kizer's 154CM. What don't you like about it?

As far as handle material, I prefer Micarta to G10 by a significant margin.
 
Chronovore said:
I agree on the coating. I prefer to see steel.

I don't have experience with Kizer's 154CM. What don't you like about it?

As far as handle material, I prefer Micarta to G10 by a significant margin.
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The edge retention is much worse than on the original, which is the S35Vn. The toughness is much worse than on the original. The corrosion resistance is much worse than on the original. Th micarta durability is a joke compared to G-10. If you can see that screw at the end of the handle. There is 1mm material left. I'm 100% that will broke sooner or later.
 
chempe said:
The edge retention is much worse than on the original, which is the S35Vn. The toughness is much worse than on the original. The corrosion resistance is much worse than on the original. Th micarta durability is a joke compared to G-10. If you can see that screw at the end of the handle. There is 1mm material left. I'm 100% that will broke sooner or later.
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It's also a hundred dollars less expensive than the original, and 154CM may not be your deal or even the hardest steel in its own price envelope, but it is plenty respectable for any decently made knife under a hundred dollars in my mind.
 
chempe said:
The edge retention is much worse than on the original, which is the S35Vn. The toughness is much worse than on the original. The corrosion resistance is much worse than on the original. Th micarta durability is a joke compared to G-10. If you can see that screw at the end of the handle. There is 1mm material left. I'm 100% that will broke sooner or later.
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Yeah, 154CM might be worse than S35VN on paper but as N NG VI said, it is like a hundred dollars cheaper. I was curious to know how much of a difference you noticed.

As I said, I don't have experience with Kizer's 154CM. Its values on paper are not particularly appealing to me but lots of people seem to like it. I also understand that the paper values are often based on ideal heat treatments. For instance, compare steels like 8Cr13Mov, 14C28N, Nitro-V, BD1-N, and VG-10 using Larrin's charts versus real-life examples. Also, how good is Kizer's S35VN versus the paper values?

The budget steel from Kizer with which I'm most familiar is N690. The stats on paper are okay, with corrosion resistance being pretty good. In actual use, I've found it to be a good steel for my totally ordinary EDC needs. Yet, people seem to hold 154CM in a higher regard and Kizer seems to be responding to that sentiment.
 
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Also micarta isn't all that much less durable than G10, it is *a bit less durable*, but they're related materials and have more in common with each other than most other handle materials, in terms of production process and function. And the screw head is wider than the rest of the screw, so no there's not '1mm of material' there, and 154CM should be pretty similar to S35VN in terms of corrosion resistance for the end user. 154CM is tougher than S35VN as well, so I don't know what you mean by that comment either.
 
chempe said:
The edge retention is much worse than on the original, which is the S35Vn. The toughness is much worse than on the original. The corrosion resistance is much worse than on the original. Th micarta durability is a joke compared to G-10. If you can see that screw at the end of the handle. There is 1mm material left. I'm 100% that will broke sooner or later.
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154cm is a great "low level" steel. Kizer is also known for a great heat treat on it and so far I have been impressed by it. The micarta is some of the best I have seen on a knife from factory and the action is top rate. I get the knife may not be for everyone but don't bash the value of this version.
 
BTW, here are the toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance values respectively from Larrin's chart. (These numbers are based on Larrin's heat treatment. I don't know how closely they'll compare to real-world samples from Kizer.)

S35VN - 5, 5, 7.5
154CM - 3.5, 4.5, 7
N690 - 3.5, 4.5, 8

I included N690 for two reasons. First, it has been Kizer's budget norm in recent years. Second, are there other reasons to view 154CM as an upgrade over N690? I've been happy with N690 as a budget steel.
 
I wouldn't say 154cm is a big upgrade. Remember that the micarta version is part of the vanguard series. Obviously the titanium version is premium. But I know they have a good heat treat on 154. I don't have enough use of their N690 to say how it holds up in comparison.
 
chempe said:
Micarta is way too much weaker than G10.
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Forget that not all Micarta is created equal. Force is almost never applied that way to the Micarta on our gear in real life. In most cases, that Micarta is also up against steel, whether in the tang of a fixed blade or the liners of a folding knife. Yes, the area above the lock bar is an exception. No, that doesn't commonly lead to catastrophic failure.

Seriously, does anyone here lead the kind of life where they'd need to be worried about that kind of stress on their EDC folder?!?
 
Alright. I've been messing around with a T1. Overall, it's a nice knife and there is a lot to love. (It sure looks pretty sitting on a rock in the sun.) However, there are a few things that bug me. There are three main ones:

1. The finger depression on the lock bar makes it relatively thin and it sits out relatively far from the show-side scale. This results in a hot spot against my trigger finger during use.

2. The thumb studs are a little sharp. I don't know if it is just crisp edges or if there is a tiny bur along some of the cuts. (My eyes aren't what they used to be.)

3. The choil isn't big enough and the edge smiles up to a mini recurve.

Whatever the case, these issues will be solved via modding. I'm gonna get some other stuff done here. It'll be like a whole new knife.


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Chronovore said:
Alright. I've been messing around with a T1. Overall, it's a nice knife and there is a lot to love. (It sure looks pretty sitting on a rock in the sun.) However, there are a few things that bug me. There are three main ones:

1. The finger depression on the lock bar makes it relatively thin and it sits out relatively far from the show-side scale. This results in a hot spot against my trigger finger during use.

2. The thumb studs are a little sharp. I don't know if it is just crisp edges or if there is a tiny bur along some of the cuts. (My eyes aren't what they used to be.)

3. The choil isn't big enough and the edge smiles up to a mini recurve.

Whatever the case, these issues will be solved via modding. I'm gonna get some other stuff done here. It'll be like a whole new knife.


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I never saw you post in this thread. I'll say that there are different versions of this knife. Mine has thumbstuds that look like the Sebenza but aren't pointy to where they hurt. Also mine has no recurve in it even after multiple sharpenings. And the handle fits me really well.

I still think the titanium T1 is one of the best models from any brand. I still hope that Kizer does more with this platform in the future.
 
ktataragasi said:
I never saw you post in this thread. I'll say that there are different versions of this knife. Mine has thumbstuds that look like the Sebenza but aren't pointy to where they hurt. Also mine has no recurve in it even after multiple sharpenings. And the handle fits me really well.

I still think the titanium T1 is one of the best models from any brand. I still hope that Kizer does more with this platform in the future.
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Variations happen. Sometimes, choils or grinds are just a little bit different.

Great timing, BTW. I just got word today that at long last, mine is getting modded.

I really like this knife and I look forward to seeing what this particular modder can do with it. There are basic mods that I enjoy doing myself but some jobs are better left to the pros. For this one, I gave some specific requests and otherwise said "do me up". I'll be sure to post pics whenever it is done.
 
Chronovore said:
Variations happen. Sometimes, choils or grinds are just a little bit different.

Great timing, BTW. I just got word today that at long last, mine is getting modded.

I really like this knife and I look forward to seeing what this particular modder can do with it. There are basic mods that I enjoy doing myself but some jobs are better left to the pros. For this one, I gave some specific requests and otherwise said "do me up". I'll be sure to post pics whenever it is done.
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Awesome I can't wait to see it. The only thing I have thought about doing to mine is getting it media blasted.
 
K ktataragasi The good thing is regular ol' cheaper aluma oxide can be used to blast it. Broadens up who can do the work. Now if you're talking that CRK glass blasting finish, that would be awesome but it might be a little more expensive.
 
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