Leather Finishes, Preservatives, and Treatments: Post Yours Here.

Linseed oil is a rather soft and flexible polymer until its exposed to UV and breaks down, where it hardens and cracks visible by it turning yellow, Bees wax is UV resistant.
Adding the bees wax could keep the Linseed from becoming brittle due to UV exposure.

Just speculation on why people may find it works when mixed.
Were the items you saw ruined by cracking exposed to large amounts of sun?
I would strongly recommend against using boiled linseed oil, or any other drying oil for that matter. It's curing the whole time it's in the leather, and subsequent coats just compound a potential disaster. But to each their own.
 
I have read all these posts and the various recipes with interest and I personally conclude that the years and years of tried and true use of pure Neatsfoot oil applied sparingly is probably what I will continue using. If it is good enough to protect and preserve 100 year old saddles that are still useable for their purpose today…..well, then it's good enough for me. I have no interest in absolute water proofing my sheaths, because I assume the end user would have enough sense to afford some level of protection for his or her gear.

It all makes for interesting conversation, I guess, but a satisfactory end result would be my goal, and I have achieved that.

Paul
 
Just rediscovered Blackrock Leather n Rich! I couldn't find it for the longest time and its on a few sites now including amazon.

It came highly lauded by my old friend Mike Bartol.

When I get through my supply of Aussie Leather Conditioner I'll be grabbing me some! Heck, might get some more sooner than later. :D
 
Thought I'd share these photos with you. Some years back (probably15 or 20 or so) I switched from a beeswax prep to warm neatsfoot oil followed by Bag Kote. I recently made another prototype of a beltless folder sheath similar to Ken's. For some reason I put a commercial beeswax preperation on it instead of my usual. I used Ray Holes Chap Wax. I've used this prep for years and have ridden with it on my chaps, boots etc in storms that would drown a frog, for days at a time. It does just about as good a job of weatherproofing leather as anything. It dries to a nice buffable finish and really leaves a nice feel to the leather. Anthony, when he was here actually inspected this prototype sheath and commented on how nice the leather felt. Three or four days after Anthony left I'd got the group of knives that I was working on when he was here pretty much finished and ready to be buffed and polished. I was wearing this new sheath on my right side and my regular sheath on my left. Buffing is just a dirty nasty but necessary job in knife making. Afterwards I noticed that the sheath with the beeswax had been stained from the buffing grime. My regular sheath did not show any grime or staining at all. Also it should be noted that my regular sheath is over two years old. Its ridden horseback hundreds of miles through rough brushy ground, been through lots of life, has paint on it from doing the dinning room etc etc. Most importantly it has stood in front of that buffer for probably 1,000 knives if not more. If I have my pants on I'm wearing that knife and sheath.The folder sheath was there for 28 knives.

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I will agree that Bag Kote is not as waterproof as beeswax preps. No question. But I don't think it is suppose to be. There is a lot of "life" out there that happens to leather that doesn't involve water. I believe it handles all that other stuff better. I sell my products. I believe Bag Kote gives a great professional appearance when a customer unwraps his item and sees it for the first time. It provides protection from, dust, grime, abrasion and life. It does not seal the leather so conditioners can be used when needed to keep nice things nice. Just my thoughts. But I was surprised by how grimy the folder sheath got from so little life.
 
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well, thanks alot for sharing! you have seen the sheaths for anthony, the one for the sak is fiebings atom wax + bag kote, the other one is (cold) neatsfoot oil + bag kote.
i am trying to recreate the success others have with beeswax mixtures, but it already starts with applying. today i almost burned my fingers trying to get the beeswax/neatsfoot mixture to soak in... so far atom wax + bag kote seems to work well enough for everyday use. no clue... but i think i will stick with it...
 
Thats what its all about, long term testing, yourself. :D

I've gone through several brands of finishes and each one seems to have its strengths and weakness's.

I've found an undercoating of soft wax/oil mix followed by an over coating of a harder wax tends to have the best of both worlds for me. Carnauba wax provides a nice hard wax coat, but I've found if your using it on a flexible piece it tends to craze just like most acrylic top coats. On straps and sheaths that get flexed a lot (think wet molded sheaths) I tend to avoid hard finishes. My first use of Tan Kote was a severe lesson as a few of them cracked and replacements were not easy to do because of the complicated pattern. It was outstanding in its ability to save me time in the finish though it cost me time later. On a 400.00 knife I had no excuses, and on 40 of them I got rather nervous how many I was going to have to replace. They were balisong sheaths that were wet molded and the retention is along the guards on the blade. All that flexing was causing a few issues.

I treat the sheaths that flex like that much deeper now. The oil/wax mix or neatsfoot, depending on the look I want to have. They tend to have different effects on different colors. Saddle Tan being one of those that seems to take them differently. My Aussie leather conditioner doesnt darken it near as much. But on dark brown or black neatsfoot is good to go.
 
I want to also add that I've gone through several different finish types and procedures through the years and most all of them were because of discussions on the various forums and here. I'm always open to new and different and or better methods.

Some get their feelings distorted because someone doesn't like their preferred methods or materials but that is not in the spirit of learning and teaching.

Within the past couple months I've rethought my finishes. I had settled on what was to me the best solution, it wasn't. My new preferred method is far better now in both feel of the leather and its final finish is more resilient to weather and harsh conditions. This after using the same finish since the late 80's when I made leather armor for full contact fighting in Medieval Re-creation. That leather never saw such harsh conditions. Heat, blood, sweat, and being put away wet and saturated in salty sweat. Nowadays I really wished I had used the multi step process I know now. My personal armor would probably still be usable.

Ah well. There will always be those that are convinced their way is the best way and no other is worth trying. Their loss. Not trying to be harsh here, but always looking for a better way makes a good craftsman and artist.

Please do keep up the discussions, dont be so focused that you miss a good thing. :) This thread is a good one, and its been shaky at times, but because of good discussion we've figured out some really great stuff here! The linseed oil subject being one of those that ended up being talked over well and figured out, I love it!!!
 
Hey Ken,
Its made by Fiebings, called Aussie Leather Conditioner. I used to get it at Tandy/The Leather Factory. Its also on Amazon (is there anything they DONT carry?) Expect about ten bucks a can but it lasts a long time. THe original can I bought seven or eight years ago is getting low.
 
Dave, you big nerd, you really got me liking the finish on your work. I need to see how it works with bottle dye.

To clear up a couple of things on wax/oil.

There's no need to apply heat after melting and mixing. My first attempts at using wax alone failed because of the high melting point. The purpose of the emulsion is to bring the melting point to a reasonable level. If you get it right you have a solid that melts under the friction of buffing it into the leather.

While it does present considerable moisture protection, my understanding is that it does not "seal" the leather. Indeed, after a year of continuous (relatively) hard use it did require a quick re-application to get its main attributes back. My oldest sheath is dyed green and shows no discoloration, although it's developed a nice patina, but I can definitely see it not being ideal for natural colored work.

Less is more, really. I use a piece of canvas that I drag over the finish. I can't really quantify how much I use, but it's very sparing.

Not sure what anyone else uses on reptile, shark and other exotics, but this does seem to be compatible with everything I've tried it on.

I'm going to do my next couple of items in natural with neatsfoot alone. We all like what we like, but I'm always ready to try something different.
 
thanks for clearing that up, i will have to try with the canvas as well. also looking for a small sort of buffing wheel for my proxxon... is it normal that wax/oil is sort of sticky after applying it properly?
 
If it's sticky you used too much. If you do use a little bit too much buff it until it's not sticky. It should feel supple depending on whether or not you dyed it.

I bought a couple of shoe shine brushes and they work nicely to get a mellow finish after the canvas.
 
Good post up there Anthony!

Agreed on all points, and I'll reiterate that no heat is needed on the wax/oil mixes unless you want to stuff the leather a bit more than the hand rubbing allows. So far with my customers, its a like/dislike on the wax/oil alone, its not exactly glossy. That nice warm sheen that hard wax gives seems to be preferred.

Neatsfoot alone is going to be rather dull, you really need a wax or brush on coating. Now I have seen plenty of saddles that are simply neatsfoot, but all of them are flat
 
I've found myself giving my work a once over with a hair dryer after I've applied the beeswax/coconut oil mixture. If I don't the tooling turns white. Do the brushes help with this?

Chris
 
You know, I've never really given a ton of thought to flat/satin versus shiny. Most customers have wanted the former and that would be my personal choice.

I painted my old Comet flat black and coated my bike flat black as well. :)

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I'm interested in knowing what everyone's preferences are in regards to how " Hard " or " Soft " they like their sheaths and other stuff to be ?
Do you guys aim for stiff leather finish , but is conditioned enough that it doesn't crack and dry out , or a more softer supple effect ?

Ken
 
This is getting good again!!!

I wish I could do flat black on my truck down here but I'd probably end up with a cinder. Our sun is brutal in this part of the country.
 
I'm interested in knowing what everyone's preferences are in regards to how " Hard " or " Soft " they like their sheaths and other stuff to be ?
Do you guys aim for stiff leather finish , but is conditioned enough that it doesn't crack and dry out , or a more softer supple effect ?

Ken
I prefer supple, but rarely get it. After dye and wet molding or stamping it hardens pretty good.
This is getting good again!!!

I wish I could do flat black on my truck down here but I'd probably end up with a cinder. Our sun is brutal in this part of the country.
Gets pretty hot here too. Pretty regularly over 100 up to 115° in July. I enjoy the heat. As an aside, if I ever move out of Cali it'll be to Texas. Nice thing about where I live is the mountains two hours east, Pacific two hours west, LA and SF about 4 hours north and south, respectively.
I say paint the truck black then just pin stripe the heck out of it in white. [emoji14] Add vintage air if necessary. Drink lots of water. Gtg.
 
I prefer firmer. After all we're sticking sharp pokey things in them. Most of my sheaths are similar to that molded pouch of yours in temper Ken.
 
really good stuff here once again. it has been mentioned in other threads, but it bears repeating how great it is that everbody is chiming in.
now obviously my "experience" comes from 10-15 sheaths only and some random other stuff, but here we go:
i would personally go with softer to the touch, but like anthony i don't really get that touch after dyeing and wet molding. then again, after reading horsewright's comment i agree. in hindsight it might have actually done me a service that the sheath came out stiffer than expected. better retention and as i like to carry a small fixed blade in my pocket it most certainly helps to prevent stabbing myself.

i also think that there is some kind tension/whatever involved in the stiffness of the material. a wetmolded sheath seems stiffer to me than a bracelet that has been wetted (both of the same weight of course). maybe because the bracelet can move around and the sheath is sewn together at various points, i don't know.
 
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