Looking for Fairbanks hammer operating manual...

Yeah, Bruce, I saw you guys got a little dusting of snow back there.

The position of the ball and bar is something I intend to experiment with. There must be an optimum angle to produce the most downward force in the arc from the top to the bottom and less force, if that is desired. I will have to see how everything balances when I have the idler pulley and arm hooked up to the treadle. I was working making some of the linkage and the connection to the treadle last night until very late.

I spent a couple of hours the other night straightening the "tightener pulley stud" as they call the pin that passes through the idler pulley. Mine was bent quite a bit out toward the end. I couldn't figure out how someone could have accidentally bent that pin, as I was busy heating it several times and hammering on it in the vise. I got it all straight and primed and painted and mounted everything on the hammer and then saw that since the "tightener pulley arm" was cast crooked, the pin had to be bent to allow the pulley to align properly with the drive pulley. They couldn't heat and bend the cast iron arm, so they bent the end of the steel pin. I had to heat it a couple of times and bend it crooked just the right amount and prime and paint it all over again. Oh well.

One thing to mention is that the stud or pin that passes through the idler pulley is drilled out in the center of the head and cross drilled inside for oiling the pin or stud. It is another place to oil. I tapped mine and installed a grease fitting.

I plan to drill the center for grease fittings and cross drill the cross head and side arm pins as well. Each pin will be cross drilled in several places to lubricate all parts of the links and side arms. It would be difficult to find locations on the side arms and links where grease fittings would not hit something in operation, and I was concerned about drilling the narrow fingers on the side arms, so I will grease through the pins instead.

The last part I believe I will need to have made is the "pitman bushing." I was at a machine shop today looking at a gantry crane for sale, and they are going to give me an estimate to make a pitman bushing of bronze. He is also going to give me an estimate of boring and cross drilling the side arm and link pins. My bushing is worn, and it is the last and only place of any slop at all in my drive line.
 
IIRC, my dampe rpulley has a zerk fitting for grease.
As fa ras the brake, it just kinda sets in there, helsd in by the pin with the counter weight.Have to look tonmorrow. That shop is kinda snowed in :)
 
birdog4 said:
IIRC, my dampe rpulley has a zerk fitting for grease.
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Ours, too...

Robert,

I don't remember, when Sid did your arm bushings/pins, if he set them up to be captured like the originals or free turning. After talking with Sid, our arm and pin rebuild used soft pins instead of hard and we didn't capture them. In that instance, I think using the original oil holes in the bushings will tend to distribute lubricant better because the oil feeds directly to the groove above the pins.

Mike
 
My new pins are free turning and mild steel. I don't have a groove above the pins - don't know what you mean.

My side arms to links connections just get oil in two holes on the links and hope that it spreads, but that doesn't get any oil under the side arm part of that connection. The same is true with the side arm to cross head connection. Only the side arm gets oiled and just hope it spreads under the cross head part of the connection.
 
Robert,here's a shot of the oil groove Mike was referring to.
 

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Oh, yeah, I have those little grooves or "reservoirs" in one link. The other link has been replaced with a forged piece and doesn't have it. The reservoir is not on the side arms, though. Even with it, you can see how it is just hope that the side arm gets oil there beside the link with the holes. I'll let you know how the boring and cross drilling of the pins works out.
 
The way the machines were designed the pic Bruce put up), the reservoir keeps any excess from going anywhere but into the pin/arm bearing area. On the inside of our arm holes there was and is a groove connecting the two holes to carry the oil from one arm edge to the other. Especially with pins that can move, there is a constant film of oil on both the pin and the hole it runs in. The other hammer owners I know have all evolved into the understanding, if there is a bunch of oil dripping out of the various bearing areas of the machine, there was too much put in to begin with... that assumes "in-spec" tolerances.

They didn't do it this way because it doesn't work. Given todays oils are a lot higher tech (bar chain oil is sticky as the devil) it seems like it should work well.

Mike
 
Bruce, are you going to quit talking to us when your snow melts?

I made the linkage for the idler pulley arm to the treadle, drilled out the hole for the spring set screw on one of my side arms and tapped it to 7/8" like the other arm and cut all the adjustment holes in my motor mount table today and this evening.

It's about time to order a belt. We have talked some about belts and Mike has given the contact information for a supplier, but what material exactly would you guys get, and how do you tell exactly how long of one you need?
 
Heck no, it'll just be at different times :)By the time the snow melts, it'll be spring turkey season. If there are any left after all this snow. :-(
I'd go with a composite belt. Get it a foot or 3 longer. Mainly 'cause you need some room to adjust and may need , at some point in time, to add a section. Ya never know.
Check out Moke's source then shop around a bit. The Smokestak forum may be a place to look too.
 
I've got it on my list to contact Sid to see if he found out anything from the belt expert. Didn't get an answer last time I called. I'll see what happens today.

Mike
 
Flat belt and calc. links...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3726/is_200406/ai_n9444587/
http://www.engineersedge.com/belt_design/belt_length_pulley_center_dist.htm
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/scenario/crowning.htm
http://www.old-engine.com/belts.htm
http://www.pyramidbelts.com/calc_beltlength.php

Mike

PS - One of the things about the type of flat belt connector that has the plastic coated hinge wire and uses a seating tool with wire-like belt ends is the belt ends are easy to get on right. There is a cost for the belt-end-clamping tool but when a person needs to shorten and/or put a new piece in, it's a simple process. Person like Bruce with his flanged motor pulley would have a lot easier time with putting a belt together using these connectors as opposed to alligator clips. Making a simple clamp for the belt ends that had a way to draw them together (like threaded rods with nuts on ends that slid into "U" cuts on the clamp ends) would simplify the putting together and taking apart... There is a reason a lot of flat belt systems have at least one non-flanged pulley in them.

Robert... you DO have to get the belt put together straight and square... any "outness" will tend the belt to run off one end of the motor/JS pulley. If that pulley is flanged, it solves the outness problem but runs the belt at one of the two flanges all the time and that tends to wear the belt a lot faster than if it runs centered.

It would be a little bit of a goat-screw, but a person could calculate the change in length due to belt stretch (I think any belt used is going to have a standard amount they tend to stretch... like the rubberized canvas stetching 4-5%, then stopping). Knowing how much change in distance between pulleys the inherent stretch would amount to would let a person build a shim set for the motor that shortened the pulley-centers distance. Then as the belt stretched its ?%, taking out shims would keep the belt as tight as it needed to be. On our machine, 5% amounts to 6" in belt length. That's not pulley-center change and I haven't done the calculations that would show the change there, but it would be a fair amount less.
 
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Thanks for the info on belts, fellas. I will be permanently mounting the motor today or tomorrow, so I will finally be able to measure things exactly. I just discovered that the jack shaft is bent a little. I believe it is 1" round stock, so I'll just replace it, but I've already had new bearings put on it and painted it, etc. Oh well, I needed something else to do.
 
I get to say that fairly often, too... "Yeah, I was looking for something to do, anyhow..."

Had a yap with Sid yesterday and the folks he has done a lot of belt stuff with have changed enough in their business approach he doesn't feel like he has a belt supplier anymore.

So much for that... now I get to figure out if the adjustable motor height idea has any soundness in the real world. That has to be balanced against my best guess if simply buying a rubberized canvas belt the correct width (gaining 17% more contact area) is going to work. Some of the points to look at are clamp tool cost, clamp cost, new pulley costs (x's 3), pillow block set, shaft, mount material (both JS and Motor), longer wire and conduit, and a couple of others, no doubt.

If a person ignores potentialities, setting the motor up in the air a little (enough to account for max 5% stretch) and buying a belt for that shortened length is the cheap and easy way to go. The problem I'm having is figuring out if going that route will simply be prolonging the reality of needing to figure, pay for and build a new 5" paper pulley and all the stuff necessary to run it on a JS... =[ I WAS NOT looking for something to do... =]

Mike
 
Something I've learned from all of this hammer rebuilding - sometimes you just gotta quit thinking about something and just jump - either way - just jump - and git'er done.
 
Yep! sometimes ya hit the bull in the ass and sometimes ya hafta learn from yer mistakes! (BOG)
As Mike and I have discussed on numerous occassions, when these machines were built, technology was at a specific level. To repair them we need insight into that technology. Looking at one of John Larson's hammers wouldn't be much help in fixing a Fairbanks or an LG.
Again, Robert, you get a pat on the back anf a tip of the hat for documenting this project!!
 
birdog4 said:
Again, Robert, you get a pat on the back and a tip of the hat for documenting this project!!
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That, to a fare thee well...
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I understand "over-thinking". I've been a dedicated practitioner for much of my life. Getting over it, as much as possible, has been a long road. The only thinking I've done on the "this way or that" with our hammer belt - JS or no, is recognizing the roads available. Now that I know there isn't a decent likelihood of coming into a magic belt, the process will be to do the calculations that will allow me to see if a changable-height motor mount is a good solution. Barring that, I'll build a JS set-up when I can.

Mike
 
Mike, what about that kind of setup where the motor is made to hinge on its mount and place continuing weight on the belt?
 
farmer12888 said:
Mike, what about that kind of setup where the motor is made to hinge on its mount and place continuing weight on the belt?
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That may be a good way to go. Would need a way to set it hard-and-fast at given distance. It seems like, as the motor is moved on the hinge, there would need to be a little change in the idler position to keep it in the same relation to the belt surface... if 5% stretch won't change the pulley center distance too much for the hinge travel to accomodate.

One thing I've thought, even though the motor should be centered on the machine, moving it towards the idler gains effective idler travel and lengthens the distance between pulley centers. It's a thing I'd consider if we find the limited idler travel inherent in this configuration causes function problems.

Mike
 
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