Some tips and thoughts on folder sheaths

okay, so here we go, as this thread is directly responsible for me making this sheath i thought i might as well post it here. if i should rather make my own thread, please let me know.
i pretty much made all possible mistakes making this sheath while still producing a useable sheath (this is my 5th overall sheath):
- i was really impatient
- i didn't take enough time to read and re-read garys instructions, instead opting for an "improvise as i go" method
- a little bit undertooled, but still okay
- i didn't plan ahead/have a plan at all
- tons of smaller mistakes resulting from the above
still, i like it ;)

leather is a 7-8oz I guess, it's about 3,0-3,2mm thick, color used is eco flow dark brown and finish is some bulk finish from the leather starter set i bought.
the tools used were:
- some stitching prongs (cheap interchangeable... i really need to get a set of decent one piece prongs), though i have to think this through as my wife isn't keen on me banging away with the mallet and the basement isn't set up yet
- an awl in awl like gary used in his tutorial
- a round awl for punching the holes through all layer (to make the sewing easier)
- a bone folder, some daubers, basic stuff like a cutting knife

oh, and it is for my spyderco uk penknife

light showed some scratches not immediately visible in normal light... i also cut to close to the stitching/didn't leave enough material.


i actually thought of a way to better transit from 2-3 layers of leather while stitching while brushing my teeth last night... i will try it out the next time.


i am not satisfied with the glue i am using, but maybe the leather wasn't dry enough/or because of the fact that i dyed the glue on area...


the flash actually makes the burnished side look much less nice :( i also haven't found a "good" way of bending the leather even though it was wetted... it shows a lot of creases.


as you can see, the top didn't stick... the thread is holding it together.


i think the positioning of the knife in the sheath is not 100%... it has a little play when inserted all the way, but it is still usable, as it sticks in there.


belt view
 
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Good work there sir, as you pointed out, some things that could be different would help but as a favourite line in a recent movie I saw 'Progress, not Perfection' that is the goal, if you only strive to be perfect, you pretty much are setting yourself up for a let down, so take the learning slow and steady.


First off, give yourself more leather to work with, you'll want more land mass on the sides in order to have the two pieces area to glue down, and I use Weldwood, sometimes I need to give a light second coat as the glue will soak up and not be tacky on the surface.

If you are going to fold the belt loop down the back side and stitch at the bottom, I'd suggest sewing one side partway down and then back stitch up two holes to anchor that. Then sew down from the other side to that same spot and pull the threads to the top of the sheath, so now there isn't any thread sticking out of the back side. Go ahead now and glue down that belt loop flap, make sure you rough up the leather so it will absorb the glue first!
Once that's glued down, THEN where you left off sewing, take your awl and go around and punch your holes through all three layers, enlarge the first hole so you can get the one thread back to the back side, then just continue sewing around the end of the sheath, I'd bring it up to the last hole of the other side and then back stitch down two holes.

I do wait for the glue to really have a good set before I even start making holes in the leather as I don't want things to shift around from me staking the holes and then holding it down with the bone folder to remove the prongs, time is on your side, don't rush.

Once it's all sewn up, then carefully cut along the outside, I still leave some area of leather there too, don't get too close to the stitching, down the road, years from now, if you want to dress the sheath up, clean the sides that may have dings in it, you'll have something to work with.

Also, Gum Trag, I'll apply some inside the sheath's top section, this will soak into the leather adding some stiffening to it, but your forming should have pulled and tugged the leather so most all the give is taken out and it should retain it's shape and retention for a long time.

And of course, feel free to post in this thread, perfectly fine :)
G2
 
Gary,

No question your design shown in the opening posts is VERY durable! You made one for my custom Simonich Talonite REKAT Carnivore S/N #1 back in the day (It's stamped Jan 2000)! The knife hasn't fared quite as well as I caught the leading edge of the wood slab chipping it on a door jam. Rob was going to fix it but sadly his death quelled that notion :(

Yl3Ry13.png
 
Thanks for that memory and it was very sad when we heard the news about Rob, far too young to go!

And that's a good point about horizontal sheaths, you now have something extending out that you were not use to having, so it can be something that could catch on things like door frames and the like. Nice knife too !
G2
 
Limited on the number of images per post, so it will be broken up a little;
I had to remove some of the images above, if you want to see what tools
look like, I'll add links to the images;


Vertical sheaths;
I like the vertical sheath as it takes up less room on your belt, here is some of
the things I do as I go about making one;

Patterns, I recommend using the small bubble wrap plastic to figure out how you
want the sheath to wrap around your knife, not all knives work well in all sheaths
so the knife is key, I've turned down some work because of the knife, but that's
just my style of sheath making, very tight to the contours of the knife.

I wrap the knife up with saran wrap to prevent moisture from weeping onto the knife
I wet my leather under HOT water until it's pliable, wrap the leather around the
knife and then using the bone folder, start shaping along the spine until you
get to the end of the knife, where it will make an indent;

initial.jpg


Where the leather dimples in, I cut down there, as you need to remove a
small piece of leather so it will fold down tightly without puckering

cutdown.jpg


cutslits.jpg


cutout.jpg


Then tightly form around the end of the knife
formtightly.jpg


Didn't have any other in process shots of this, but here is the finished sheath
it's one that I do not take orders for, the old combo deal, sorry guys, but it may give you
something to try your hand at doing; All one piece of leather with one exception
inside the bottom area of the light side, I glued in a small strip of leather, this prevents
the light from passing all the way through, easier and much cleaner than trying to squish
it closed.

DC.jpg


Once the leather is dried, then I would emboss and dye as needed,
I dye before gluing up as glue can mess up your project.

How were you able to put the belt loop in. I want to make one like this but with the belt loop on it traditional style, up and down.
 
That sheath is all one piece of leather, interesting but a pain to make, hence my resistance to build more ;) But you can just barely see at the top of the sheath where the leather folds down behind the sheath and meets down at the bottom of the sheath so there isn't any stitching inside.

The leather is formed over the knife first and then I formed the light holster part, that is cut so it wraps around the light and around to the back of the sheath, where it will be stitched down between the light and knife.

I start sewing down from the top and when I get near the bottom, then I'll glue the belt loop to the bottom and continue stitching around the end.
G2
 
That sheath is all one piece of leather, interesting but a pain to make, hence my resistance to build more ;) But you can just barely see at the top of the sheath where the leather folds down behind the sheath and meets down at the bottom of the sheath so there isn't any stitching inside.

The leather is formed over the knife first and then I formed the light holster part, that is cut so it wraps around the light and around to the back of the sheath, where it will be stitched down between the light and knife.

I start sewing down from the top and when I get near the bottom, then I'll glue the belt loop to the bottom and continue stitching around the end.
G2

Wow that is really creative. Okay... I
got it.
 
Horizontal sheaths and embossing stuff;

These sheaths take a bit more time and material to do, as they are
not made from one piece of leather;

Form the top section using the bone folder and then glue it down to
another piece of piece of leather, then I put holes around the sheath
and then trim to the final width along the top.
those two will be glued onto a third piece of leather that will be a backing
and belt loop.

IMG_1972.jpg


The leather needs to be ROUGHED up in order for the glue to adhere properly


I use a small knife to rough up close to the line;


EDITED to say that I've since changed from Barge to Weldwood contact cement, you can get
it at Wally world pretty cheaply and it works VERY well too, wish I had tried it years ago!!!


I use Barge Cement to glue things together, apply on both sides and let
dry for 20 minutes or so, not TOO heavy, no big globs!


both sides

I then punch the rest of the way through the third layer of leather
IMG_1973.jpg


use the one awl to enlarge the first hole to start the thread
IMG_1974.jpg


Sew n Awl threaded
IMG_1977.jpg


I use a little more than double the length of the path around the sheath for thread
and pull one side through the sheath so you have one half of the thread on
each side of the sheath.

Push the needle through and pull back to form a loop and insert the one thread
through that loop

IMG_1978.jpg


Then pull tightly
IMG_1979.jpg


it'll come through on the other side, I then pull the knot back into the middle of
the leather


Hi.

One thing that always puzzled me about these sheaths: Isn't the "bottom" layer (between the top and loop layers) expendable? Couldn't we just have the top layer and have the bottom also be the loop layer? It would mean we'd need less leather and less layers to punch through (less bulky sheath in the end).

Does this makes sense to anyone else? Any reason for the 3 layers?...

Thanks.
 
Hi.

One thing that always puzzled me about these sheaths: Isn't the "bottom" layer (between the top and loop layers) expendable? Couldn't we just have the top layer and have the bottom also be the loop layer? It would mean we'd need less leather and less layers to punch through (less bulky sheath in the end).

Does this makes sense to anyone else? Any reason for the 3 layers?...

Thanks.

First off, welcome to BladeForums !

and as to that extra layer of leather, it is something that I decided a very long time ago to add rigidity to the overall fit of the knife in the sheath.

Imagine, the top section is formed very tightly over the knife, it holds the knife securely. Now, below the knife is a layer of leather, remember it is just leather and can also move, or expand, so in time that great retention can loosen up and your knife might not be held as secure as it once was.

With the addition of that middle layer, it reinforces the backing for the knife, so the sheath doesn't expand as it might have without it. It offers some structural integrity at the expense of a little bit more leather and a little harder stitching, but I feel that it is worth the effort and for that small layer, it really doesn't make the sheath more bulky. Without it, I would fear that the knife may come loose in time and during carry, it might come free of the sheath, something no one would want to have happen.

So yes, more work but overall it is a stronger better retention acting sheath.
G2

edited to add, you don't 'have to' use the middle layer, it's anyone's prerogative to not do so, those are just my reasoning for doing so, it certainly not written in stone that it has to be done that way ;) and remember this is just for the horizontal style sheaths, I don't do the extra layer on the vertical as the vertical style carry isn't in as much danger of falling out as a horizontal sheath carry.
 
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Gary, Love that knife/light combo, but no matter how many times I look at that picture, I just can't visualize the contruction. Could you show us another angle? Or does someone else have a different way of describing the construction? Not really good with written directions, very visual in my learning. I would love to tackle something like that. By the way, what type of light did you use?
 
Every time in view this thread I'm reminded about how this is one of the best threads here :thumbup:

Combo sheaths are really cool and I've made a few now , but none get even close to Gary's workmanship and style .
They are a challenge , but totally doable with thought and patience .
The type of Flashlight is important and I've found that straight sided ones with no taper or flare to the lense end are the best .

Ken

Edit to add a couple of my attempts





 
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Thanks guys and Ken, your work is awesome sir!

As to the how on that combo, I don't have one at hand to take a photo of for you, but let me try to explain it maybe a little better.

It was made from one piece of leather, I recommend using some bubble wrap to work out the form and how much leather you will need. The smaller diameter type bubble wrap works best.

Picture that you have some leather the knife is laid down on and the leather extends out to the right side of the knife, also straight north of the knife is a section that is as wide as the knife is that will fold down behind the knife to form the belt loop, like seen here;

That section folds down tightly to the back of the knife and is sewn along the bottom

110side by GaryWGraley, on Flickr

110back by GaryWGraley, on Flickr

and a front view of that sheath.

buck110sheath2 by GaryWGraley, on Flickr


NOW, that leather that goes off to the right hand side, you will wet the leather under hot running water so it is supple, and you will bring that over top of the knife and form it tightly around the knife, removing that little block of leather at the bottom so it will fold down tight to the knife.

Once that is formed, THEN I'll wrap the leather around the light, as to what that light was, I haven't the foggiest as it was a customer's knife and light and made a long time ago. but basically you do your forming on the knife first and I usually will stitch that down so it's held in place as I form the light's portion. I will remove that stitching once the light's portion is formed.

The piece that goes around the light will wrap around and go about to the middle of the knife on the back, it will be glued to the leather on the back of the knife sheath and then you will punch the holes down the middle again to get through the leather from the light's portion. and stitch down that..

Now, the part that extended up from the knife will be folded down tightly and glued and sewn at the bottom of the sheath.

I don't recall who owns that sheath or I'd ask them to get a photo of it for us, it's been a long time ;)

And, I don't make sheaths like this, so time consuming it's hard to price something like this, but it takes time and patience.

G2
 
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First off, welcome to BladeForums !

and as to that extra layer of leather, it is something that I decided a very long time ago to add rigidity to the overall fit of the knife in the sheath.

Imagine, the top section is formed very tightly over the knife, it holds the knife securely. Now, below the knife is a layer of leather, remember it is just leather and can also move, or expand, so in time that great retention can loosen up and your knife might not be held as secure as it once was.

With the addition of that middle layer, it reinforces the backing for the knife, so the sheath doesn't expand as it might have without it. It offers some structural integrity at the expense of a little bit more leather and a little harder stitching, but I feel that it is worth the effort and for that small layer, it really doesn't make the sheath more bulky. Without it, I would fear that the knife may come loose in time and during carry, it might come free of the sheath, something no one would want to have happen.

So yes, more work but overall it is a stronger better retention acting sheath.
G2

edited to add, you don't 'have to' use the middle layer, it's anyone's prerogative to not do so, those are just my reasoning for doing so, it certainly not written in stone that it has to be done that way ;) and remember this is just for the horizontal style sheaths, I don't do the extra layer on the vertical as the vertical style carry isn't in as much danger of falling out as a horizontal sheath carry.

Thank you for the welcome and for your willingness to share your work with everyone! Amazing pieces!

What you just said explains perfectly why that layer is used. Makes perfect sense. I'm trying to come up with a design for a horizontal/vertical carry sheath for a Victorinox Farmer + firesteel (+ flashlight, maybe). I have studied your work and it'll probably end up being a "fake" version of one of yours.

Thanks again for sharing and for the patience you have with all our questions and requests.

:):thumbup:
 
You're very welcome, one other point I forgot to mention, and it's pretty important in how things get put together. When you have that extra layer of leather, you can glue down the formed and dried top section down while still having some land mass to help glue it into place, then you can punch in the holes around it, and then trim the one side that will be up towards the belt and sand and burnish that much easier than if it were just a single layer of leather, it provides a more substantial part to handle and then glue down to the belt loop side.

Now the sheath that you are considering, I'd suggest vertical for the reason of the lack of contour the knife provides, it will still be snug but you'll have gravity on your side, plus adding a light or fire starter will be a little easier to carry, making the sheath expand sideways instead of too wide if worn horizontally.

G2
 
Gary, you do fantastic work. I've made a few sheaths for my buck folders following your tutorial. I never really liked the stock sheaths. They are too bulky. The three in the middle of this shot are the ones I made based on your design. You are the man!
 
You guys are too kind and BigH, nice work on those, it's great to make something that you can actually put to use and looks nice!

The Buck 110 and family are some of the best contoured knives for my style of sheaths, but as I've mentioned before, Buck does such a great job they are able to keep the price down so reasonable that a custom sheath is tough to spend money on, although some still want something better to carry it in.

I am very glad that these tutorials are able to help pass along some tips that might inspire up and coming leather workers!
G2
 
Hi Gary,
sent you a message a few minutes ago. i'd like to let you know i forgot to tell you it needs to be a belt sheath horizontal carry.
i need your advice on the size of the symbol i want you to sew into the sheath . i don't want to actually say what that is openly
so i can keep my sheath unique. thx.

I'm in no hurry and i know you stay busy. just wanted to get my request in you brain stem. :thumbup:
 
Howdy, didn't get any messages or emails yet, I'd email you but it's not listed, you can email me at chiseledge at yahoo.com

and by the by, my brain stem is open and receptive, but there may be a disconnect from there to my brain center ;) it happens to the best of us :)

Thanks
G2
 
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