The first secret project -- the BirGorkhka Everest katana. Pix.

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Well, here's the first of the secret projects -- the BirGorkha Everest Katana. It is 35 inches overall -- blade 25 and handle 10. I'd guess it is maybe 3/16 thick and would guess the weight at maybe one to 1.5 pounds. I didn't have scales or mics available at BirGorkha but it was faithfully reproduced from a pre 1864 katana supplied by Jim March. It will come with a wood wrapped in water buffalo leather sheath with loops for traditional carry.

You will notice the handle is far from traditional. Kumar and Bura collaborated on this handle and wanted to show all of you their version of how the handle should be. They agreed, however, to make any type handle you preferred if you did not like this one. I told them I did not think this handle would be well received but did not want to squelch the great innovations and creativity I saw displayed on a daily basis in BirGorkha so told them to go right ahead with their idea. If we modify the handle to our own tastes and needs Kumar and Bura will understand and do their best to give us what we want.

The man holding the sword in the top pix is Sgt. Karka, a 35 year veteran of Nepal Army service. He is a guy who gets things done. I believe here we would call him an expeditor. He is still on active duty but wants to retire to work full time at BirGorkha. He is so valuable to the Nepal Army they give him as much leave as he wants so he works about 1/3 to 1/2 time at BirGorkha and still receives full army pay.

The fellow in the bottom pix is Kumar, maker of long khukuris and swords. He is about 25 years old and has a dozen years experience. He is the major producer at BirGorkha. He works long hours and stays very busy. He has three helpers which he keeps busy and pays from his own wages. I suspect he is the highest paid kami in Nepal. He earns about five times as much as a degreed school teacher and I predict he will become one of the best kamis in Nepal. He asks the old master kamis many questions and will ask for them to demonstrate techniques. He listens and learns quickly. He is intelligent and creative and a very nice young man. I rate him as a full fledged journeyman and I hold him in high regard.

What looks like a blade that Kumar is holding is not. It is a profile cut from 1/32 glavanized sheet and will serve as a profile for future models. Every knife made at BirGorkha has a profile like this hanging on the wall with notes or codes written on the metal regarding thickness, fullering, etc., so that an identical blade can be reproduced from the profile.

There are two of these experimental models which should be getting to the US by April, I'd guess. Jim March gets number one. Broken Arrow is very familiar with sword testing so I have decided to send him number two for testing and evaluation. This is a new venture and the kamis may need some input on exactly how they should modify manufacturing techniques to achieve the desired end product. I'm depending on Jim and Broken Arrow to supply this information. I have high hopes that the first two may need only minor adjustment.

When I described how the Japanese sworkmakers use a mud wrap during the hardening process the kamis were not in the least surprised and answered, "sometimes we use that method ourselves."

High hopes.

We will see how this venture ends up but it ain't a secret anymore.

Ideas, input, comments? All welcome.

PS: See the bulletin board on the shop wall in the background? All customers who sent pix are up there.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ


[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 02-23-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 03-03-2000).]
 
If you look at the bottom left picture on the bulletin board you will see a picture of four cracked handles. Apparently the kamis wanted a constant reminder of the problem.

I'll look forward to katana reviews by Jim and Broken Arrow. It's going to be hard to use some traditional grips and techniques with the handle innovations. On the other hand, the innovations may inspire different and equally effective ways of doing things. The debates should be interesting.
 
Very cool Uncle Bill.

How much latitude would one have in specifying not only more of a conventional handle (never been a fan of finger grooves) but also handle length? A ten inch handle is a wee too short for the art I study.

Also, any thought of making the blade blanks available? A reasonably priced, decently tempered blade that you could do it yourself with the furnishings, would be loved by a fair number of folks.

Thanks, and welcome back!

Joel
 
That picture of the broken handles is a constant reminder for BirGorkha. It is not the fault of the kamis but the fault of the man who supplies us with horns. Gelbu at this very moment is on his way to Calcutta to search out a supplier of horn who can give us the aged horn that we want and WILL get.

Howard was able to find his picture on the wall. Can anybody else?

Joel, if you give us a picture or better yet get Yvsa to make a wood model out of pine or even balsa we'll do it for you. Handle length is no problem or are variations.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 02-23-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 02-23-2000).]
 
Oh ya. Kewl.

A bit of history here:

Three or four years ago I was shopping for a sword blade I could mount up myself and make a fairly basic RenFaire carry piece, practice sword and maybe get into SCA bottle-chop competition. So I wanted "battle ready", something real versus some Taiwanese stainless horror.

At a local gun show, this guy was selling old Japanese swords. I bought one he claimed was early 20-century Japanese, what's known as a "Gunto". Cool. About a year later, still hadn't mounted it yet (sigh) and I show it to a friend who'd spent time in Japan and knew old swords.

The city of origin was Kyoto - except one little problem...it was the character as it was used prior to 1864 and the fall of the Shogun.

Most likely date is near 1830ish, give or take.

Another year goes by, and an evil roomie *steals* it. Grrr. I get it back a year later, he was an idiot (we knew that) and left it tip-down in a closet so the last 3mm or so of tip rusted.

It could still be polished out just fine, but it'd need a traditional polish and re-scabbard job running $800+, and new furniture running another $650 minimum. And then it'd be a "pure wall-hanger" because of age and value up around $2000.

Welll...I didn't want a wall-hanger anyways.

So here's a better idea: it now hangs in BirGhorka's shop wall! I get the battle-ready practice sword I wanted in the first place, and HI gets a new product that'll kick Paul Chen's red butt into oblivion
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.

Bill will price 'em but we already know that the Paul Chen "Practical Katana" is junk at $150ish and it ain't until you spend $450ish that you get anything worthwhile from him. The HI version will be far better steel than Chen's railroad-tracks, and there will be details of balance and blade design complexity copied off of that true original Edo-period piece that ain't found in anything Chen makes at any price.

I figure the HI Katana has got to be worth $350 to $450. It'll be the toughest critter in anything remotely like the price range.

Now, commenting on these pics:

The pommel-tsuba ("guard disk") has to go. Sorry. Good news is, a few minutes at a grinder and it's history. I know it's a common feature in Nepalese one-handed swords but...this is a whole different drill.

Other than that, if the main tsuba is tough enough, it's thinness may offset the increased weight of the close-to-full-tang, which could work well. At that point, you've got a "short grip" version of the sword, and for most people that's fine.

Bill, if there's a way to do a second with a longer grip of 12", I'd prefer that. 10" may be more popular overall though. The fingergrooves seem fine, they're not "too radical" so as to limit grip positions and they'll be somewhat funtionally equivelent to the cord-wrap on a "real" one.

My main concern right now is that the tsuba won't be tough enough, that it should be a round piece of un-tempered blade-steel. The Japanese generally used cast-iron about 3/16" thick, or sometimes 1/4" brass.

What was the kami's general impression of the project?

Jim
 
Bura and Kumar were not the least bit intimidated and welcomed the change of pace.

I told them the tsuba wouldn't work as is so they started to work on a thick brass version while I was there and intended to have dragons engraved on it. Nice touch. If this isn't tough enough we'll move to spring steel. I think the pommel tsuba is already gone. I told them to grind it away.

My main concern is getting the hardness and hamon correct. Bura didn't seem the least bit concerned about it and gave me a long lecture and demonstration on obtaining the proper "pine" which is what the kamis call hardness or their own Nepali style Rc. Bura showed me the seven stages of pines each with its own particular color which was something I didn't know. Bura may have to do the hardening on the first few models until Kumar gets it down.

We'll see.

All ideas and comments appreciated.

------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
Thick brass in the grades we've seen so far should be perfect.

One reason you see these variations in terms of grip length preferred is because the original grips evolved. During the "major wars" period(s) around 400 years ago, grips ran long to give leverage to pry under armor and do other funky things. By the Edo period, battlefield conflict was rare so grips got shorter for "daily street carry" and personal dueling.

Joel and I apparantly both studied something more "old school".

With 38" as a fixed length limit due to shipping, we could run 13" grips on this 25" blade. That's not a bad combination.

Jim
 
Thanks for imput both Jim and Joel. I think Broken Arrow will jump in with some ideas, too. This katana is a new venture for me so I can use all the help I can get.

------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
I know nothing about katanas.

It's great that they are copying an original, though.

There seems to be lot of demand on sword forums for a quality, affordable katana blade that can be outfitted by the end user. Also, if the kamis didn't have to include a handle, would it be easier to ship a longer piece of steel for the "long handle" crowd?

Sgt. Karka looks like a no-nonsense kind of guy. Sort of the Nepali version of "Sgt. Rock" or something?

-Dave

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Looking for God in all the wrong places.

[This message has been edited by Dave K (edited 02-23-2000).]
 
The sarkis felt that making the scabbard was going to be real pain but I asked them to try a couple so we'll see what happens in that area.

Sgt. Karka is a no nonsense sort of fellow and would have made an excellent Gorkha. He was and has been thwarted in his career by his lack of education. He'd have been a Col. if he had a better education.

------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
Up until this post, I'd never had an interest in Katana's. That has just changed! I don't care for the handle, but the thought that I could get hold of one with the incredible heat treat that our kamis are capable of makes me very interested. Is there anyway we could get a kit and handle it ourselves? I like the traditional silk wrap on the handles and eagerly await Jim's evaluation and field testing.
Always a pleasure Uncle Bill,
Sutcliffe
 
Uncle, I'm glad that this project is underway. Proper heat treatment on this blade should be one of the main goals. The blade shape looks good from the photos, and the curving handle (blade and handle forming an - S) looks cool. I don't think the traditional (Japanese style) practioners would like this overall shape. The tsuba (guard), finger grooves, and pommel might not appeal to many people though. Steel fittings (guard, pommel) would also be a good idea, since it will take alot of abuse. Will the Everest Katana have a full tang? This would be a good idea. The blade length is fine, almost Chisa Katana length. My family katana has a blade length of 26.5" and a tsuka (handle) length of 11.5". A 11" - 12" handle would be perfect for this blade size, but for those people who prefer a longer handle, an option to acquire it would be good. Will they use the clay method on the blades? Another idea would be to offer bare blades for sale. Already finished and sharpened. Many will buy these and do the final steps to assemble their own swords. I really think this will sell. Many people are looking for good working swords, and many out in the market especially from Paul Chen are lacking. The quality control varies too much. Also, one last question, will the steel be 5160 also? This is a great steel, but it will not show a hamon (temper line) like traditional tamahagane steel. I don't really care for all that art stuff (it looks nice). My main thing is that, if it looks like a sword, it should perform like a sword. I don't wan't it to let me down when the #%$% hits the fan. Now I need to make more test targets for the future tests on the H.I. Everest Katana.
 
I see me - black shirt and black hat, standing out from the rest on the lower right corner. But then I always stand out.

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Horse sense is what a jackass ain't got.
 
Bill,

Any idea of what these will cost yet? I have been looking for on worth buying and the Paul Chen stuff just does not measure up in my mind. I am conviced the kami's can do a far better job. I have a feeling these will sell like crazy!
smile.gif



Regards,

Tom Carey
 
I kind of like what they've done with this wooden handle, the slight humpback and fingergrooves are in the "weird but cool" school.

The need for a thicker main tsuba and the ditching of that pommel-tsuba are already being addressed.

The original has a blade a bit over 26", like all Edo-period swords. That was standard, by edict of either Shogun or Emperor...can't recall which.

Bill, I think the confusion may be that they didn't realize the copper piece at the blade's base counts towards blade length! My original concept was to do away with that piece, but bulge the blade steel out at that point and perhaps wrap a single thin sheet of brass around the bulge. Or not, doesn't really matter - what matters is, the blade's base would be fatter to attach a thick stick-tang to.

But #1, they ain't doing a stick tang here. Not with those two big rivets. That means there's no reason for the bulge at the base, which is cool.

Bill, is there any way to get them to do blade lengths back up to 26"? Add a 12" grip to that, we're *right* at the 38" shipping limit.

The particular specimen pictured here (once re-fitted with a thick tsuba which Bill says is already happening) would be perfect for somebody into Iado or other schools using the Edo-period short grip.

Jim
 
Looking at that hilt again.

I kind of like it. If nothing else, it would make a great design for a fantasy blade/movie prop.

I could definitely see Conan the Barbarian carrying around a sword like that.
smile.gif


-Dave

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Looking for God in all the wrong places.
 
LOL! The real comedy is, it matches my Sifu!

Jeez...it REALLY does. The Sifu is the megafolder pictured at the top left corner of every BF screen...

Jim
 
Jim, isn't the traditional tang a 2/3rd or 5/8th hidden tang, which wound allow 31 or 32" blade with 6" or 7" stub to mount the handle on. Personally for me, 26" to 28" blades would probably be better.

And yes, I did so notice the similarity between the Sifu and the Everest.

Hmm, if a Colt 45 is a peacemaker because it ends conflict, could the HI katana be called the Everest because one's enemies will be at the place of everresting?

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Horse sense is what a jackass ain't got.
 
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Almost perfection, with alterations as above.
I much prefer the shorter blade length. The 28" and longer blades are (to me) cumbersome. It has been quite a while since I've had a good sword in hand
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BA,& JM,
What do you guys use for a test medium? I used to use bundled Sunflower stalks.
Oh yes, I'll dig up the cash for one of these.
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