To carry a firearm in a kit or not?

squatch, that is nearly the exact same firearm discretion rules I live by. Well spoken. CCWc. c=clandestine is a variable that saves lives.
granite, each to their own, but I'm not polling AT hikers, Backpacker or Grandma Gatewood(r.i.p.) on MY personal protection. It is not 1973. May some force be with you, Jason
 
That's fine, you may be in situations where a gun is a necessity. For the places and activities I'm involved in I don't see the need. I sometimes carry pepper spray and always a stout hiking stick, but have never needed them for defense.

 
Stryver; if you decide on the .44 Mag. for your bear protection, I suggest you go with Randy Garrett's line of cartridges. He makes them for the .44 Mag. and .45-70. The .44 Mag. load is used by the Montana Bear Control unit. Read about the guy who was fourth in line in a group of hunters tracking down a wounded grizzly, when it charged from behind, and the hunter stopped it with his .44 Mag. I have reloaded since the mid .50's, and wouldn't try to duplicate the performance of these loads. Here is the URL: http://www.garrettcartridges.com/

Hope this helps, Walt
 
With regard to the heavy .44 loads.

I've used what appears to be the same bullet for many years - the NEI 310-429. I use wheelweights with added antimony, and tempered by dropping the hot cast bullets into water (There are some precautions so ask before trying for the first time..).
Due to the efficient shape of the bullet overall length of cartridge is easy to achieve. The above method makes for a much tougher bullet than can be made from lino. The cast weight from WW will be 320 grains. They should be hard crimped.

It isn't hard to achieve the ballistics.

Accuracy of the bullet is excellent to 200 metres (silhouette shooting).

I agree with the comment on the webpage about using strong guns like Rugers, TC's or Dan Wessons. I now use the latter. I don't think that you'll blow up a S&W 29, but you'll sure shake it apart in a hurry. The shooter will give out before a Ruger or DW

I've actually shot many 40 round matches with the load in a various Super Blackhawks with silhouette grips - it's no fun.
With a 4 lb DW it's still no great fun.
Don't even think about it in a TC! You can though seat the bullet out for a heavier load and even more pain... I'd enjoy seeing someone try to hit a target with the load in a 21/2" barrelled gun.

Since the barrel rises so much in recoil before the bullet leaves the barrel, you'd definitely need a higher front sight - so I'd forget the bear busting stories as more good luck than good management - I don't believe Smiths have interchangeable front sights.
The bullet will certainly do its job of breaking a lot of bone - I've found a lot with high retained weight after hitting steel targets. I have some articles on it somewhere from the original design by JD Jones.

The benefit of a heavily loaded .44 over a supermag is reduced muzzle flash.

Just my two cents..

 
This is a very interesting subject. I had not read it until now. Sounds like Granite and Stryver were not popular in their openion (Mostly Granite).

Welllllll.... I almost hate to say this but,.... I don't usually carry a gun to the woods. I am always deep in, away from any trails and have never needed one. Heck... we never even see another person unless we pop out on a road or trail and they happen to pass by at that exact moment.

When hiking on trail and in an area that presents danger... I may consider it... but until now I have not. Note: I don't go hiking, on trail, very often (last time was two years ago).

Interesting debate.
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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Granite, I feel a little bad that you thought that your opinion made me angry. It certainly did not. I respect what you have to say and I am awfully glad that for the most part, the woods are still a haven from two legged pests. I honestly feel that a gun is simply a tool, and you just have to know how to use it and when it is appropriate. It is too bad that some folks seem to think that having this specific tool at your disposal is wrong and dangerous. Just be smart and responsible. The BEST tool you can have at your disposal, though is a trained and focused mind.

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When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

 
I am not a hiker, and for the most part my time in the woods is spent deeper in than the average hunter. My goal is not to see another person. But you never know. I do not a weapon for just protection against two legged predators, that is just one benefit in my mind. There are enough uses that the small weight is offset by benefits, for me. I never would get upset at someone that chose not to, or even derided my decision. Each person has to make their own mind up as to the worth of any equipment, I would have enver posted this subject had I not wanted disagreement. I am secure enough in my decision that someone elses would not make me upset, I would weigh thier argument and decide from there. I do not think that many here are that much different, I do not think anyone got too upset, I hope.
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The only times I have really been concerned about other people are the times my wife has wanted to camp somewhere "civilised" or where you are likely to meet other people such as a wilderness area like the AT that attracts a lot of people.

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Lee

LIfe is too important to be taken seriously. Oscar Wilde

[This message has been edited by MichLee (edited 01-07-2000).]
 
Stryver,

You've obviously delved deeper into reloading for the .44 maggie than I have. Some questions:

Are gas checks necessary with the bullet you describe?

What powder do you favor?

Thanks in advance.

John
 
Hi John:

I guess your questions as to the heavy bullets for the .44 were aimed at me not stryver...

Non gas checked - no problems with accuracy or leading in competitions.
I usually used 4227. WW296 or H110 gave best velocities though - just too much throat erosion over thousands of rounds. The issue with a defense use is muzzle flash since bear problems usually come in poor light. The lot of 4227 I have is better than WW296 or H110 - but you have to remember that silhouette shooters buy powder in large quantities - so I haven't bought any recently.

Do you have experience with casting - and what gun do you shoot?

Jimbo
 
oops! Sorry Jimbo!

Thanks for the info. I don't currently cast, but it is on my long list of things to get into. I do reload for my S&W .44 Mountain Gun. I usually load medium for this as I am still getting used to the .44. I don't intend to use many REAL heavy loads as they are painfull in this gun and it is not as strong as a Ruger. I do want some heavy loads on hand for dire encounters.

John
 
Stryver,
You didn't adrress your last post to me, (I'm not sure why) but it's clear that you were referring to my post. Thanks for the lesson on what are tools and what are firearms. I've been wondering what I should use them for.
smile.gif
Maybe it's "silly" for you to carry a large bore handgun, but I definately don't feel "silly" when I have mine on. Nowhere did I state that it was going to be my all purpose survival tool. My point to Granite was, that it is a fatal mistake in a survival situation to only see one use for something you have. You need to be able to improvise with EVERYTHING you have with you. If you can't see the benefit to having a firearm over a computer, than I feel sorry for you the next time you find yourself in a survival situation.

Jim
 
Yup.

I haven't done a lot of hiking, but when I have gone, I have carried my Glock 23. It was loaded with a 155-grain XTP @ a little over 1150 fps.

FWIW, I ain't too scared of much. I would love to take a big boar with a spear, for instance, and I'm pretty sure I could take a black bear with the EDMF knife that Dale Sandberg made for me, or at very least, hold them off with a staff- but this is the thing: if I'm out with someone else, I have more than just me to consider. While I may be willing to risk my own life, I will not risk theirs.
 
Jim:
I do not mean to say that carrying a large bore gun is silly. I definately intend to pick a good bear-stopper for this summer, when I plan on venturing out into the wilds of Alaska, and I have no qualms about carrying a gun, and I know that you can do many things with one.

However, I would say that of the things I intend on carrying, they have one of the most limited uses. Starting a fire with a modern gun is more difficult than the flint and steel kit I carry in my pocket (Shoot, people always warned me of a blooper leaving a wad in a shotgun, but every blooper I ever managed to load always ended up with a full load of shot, and the wad, scattered a few yards in front of me). I would rather signal with a smoke-generator than a gun, I can feed green branches on it all night, with little chance of running out fo a forest, and with greater visibility in most conditions, as well as conditions more likely to bring emergency crews (Smoke vs. gunfire in the woods...). And nowhere that I have been has carrying a metal match provided the oppurtunity to go to jail.

As I said, I do not see a problem with carrying a gun, I enjoy shooting, and intend on buying a self protection piece that would shoot through more people broadside than I can fit at my kitchen table. But don't call it a survival tool. It's a firearm, and manages a fair, at best, job at doing a few other things.

Stryver, who could definately improvise more things from a computer, and catch more game with snares from it's wire, than he could make out of a gun, or kill hunting...
 
Hi John:

With a light S&W stay with the light loads and slowly build up. The best bullet choice would be to find a supply of hard cast bullets by the 500. Most shoot just fine as long as you aren't in competition where flyers would cause problems at range.
I've even used swaged bullets with modern lubricants with very little leading to above 1000 fps and with great accuracy. These choices work out cheap enough to shoot a lot.
If you stay with the lighter bullets and drive them faster the sight settings won't be much different at short range.
The heavier bullets (300+) are another thing altogether. I don't think you could imagine the recoil in your gun, and you would find that you have to change sights - so I'd advise against trying - stay with what you shoot all the time.

Jimbo
 
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