First knives I used in a professional kitchen were carbon Sabs,( my favorite non custom)Wusthof & Dexter-Russell. I have also worked in kitchens that turned out great food with a lot of the cooks using rental knives. I now own custom knives....because I like them.... Its all in what you like & choose to spend your money on.
Top 5 makers
- Thread starter oivind_dahle
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First knives I used in a professional kitchen were carbon Sabs,( my favorite non custom)Wusthof & Dexter-Russell. I have also worked in kitchens that turned out great food with a lot of the cooks using rental knives. I now own custom knives....because I like them.... Its all in what you like & choose to spend your money on.
I agree with you. The definition of "Chef" was - Head of the kitchen....You had to work your ass off and earn the right to be called "Chef". Now anyone who cooks is called "Chef"......
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But what are you judging them on, performance or pretty handles? Sounds like appearance is as important as function to a lot of people.
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Top 5 KITCHEN KNIFE MAKERS ---
Murray Carter
Bob Kramer
Kenichi Shiraki
Bill Burke
Michael Rader
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jdm61
itinerant metal pounder
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Doesn't the owner of Per Se use what he gets paid to endorse? Isn't that also the same who made a dish for Anthony Bourdain from cigarette butts? Point being that it probably seems VERY ironic to many that someone who worked in a "molecular gastronomy" joint that charges almost as much for a "tasting menu" for two (sans wine or "supplements", mind you) as I charged for my last TWO hand forged chefs knives decides to lecture people about pretense. Welcome to Blade Forums.
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I agree especially when people drop names and call themselves Chef
Doesn't the owner of Per Se use what he gets paid to endorse? Isn't that also the same who made a dish for Anthony Bourdain from cigarette butts? Point being that it probably seems VERY ironic to many that someone who worked in a "molecular gastronomy" joint that charges almost as much for a "tasting menu" for two (sans wine or "supplements", mind you) as I charged for my last TWO hand forged chefs knives decides to lecture people about pretense. Welcome to Blade Forums.
Thomas Keller has several Kramers. I'm sure he has more of whatever else he wants too because he can.
jdm61
itinerant metal pounder
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So now that Mr. Keller is rich and a "brand" rather than just a working stiff in the kitchen, he apparently has time to "B.S. about who is the best knifemaker?"
So now that Mr. Keller is rich and a "brand" rather than just a working stiff in the kitchen, he apparently has time to "B.S. about who is the best knifemaker?"
You makes no sense. No one said that.
jdm61
itinerant metal pounder
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Should I have put the official Blade Forums sarcasm warning in my post? Actually, Chef Richie did imply something to that effect re "real" chefs. Please read the thread more carefully.
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
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I have been a fish cutter/cook at different points in my life:
1985-1986-Bedford Seafood on the border between Mt. Kisco and Bedford Hills, NY
1996 Line cook at Emmett Watson's Oyster Bar in Pike Place Market, Seattle, WA
2011-2012 Seafood Team Member, Whole Foods Market
Will make a few observations based upon experience:
1. Soft stainless knives supplied by all three places did not rust, but didn't hold an edge for beans....Dexter-Russell Sani Safe, more off brands than I can shake a stick at....thick edge geometry, easy to sharpen, easy to dull, decent ergos.
2. IN MY EXPERIENCE....non-stainless carbon steel stains white fish cuts....tried for weeks to use a superior cutter custom made out of carbon steel, forced patina, tried everything...didn't work in that environment
3. Thin, hard stainless steel(UHB-AEBL, Sandvik 13C26, 154cpm) has been wonderful to use in kitchen environments, both at home and in professional kitchens......like 20 thou or less at the secondary bevel.
4. It's a lousy cook who blames his tools for failure to produce consistent delicious, nutritious food....but starting with good stuff and maintining it isn't that hard and pays off in the long run. I like to remove variables as much as possible.
Alphabetically:
1. Bill Burke-Made to use, thin, hard steel....balanced wonderfully, cuts forever, handle wonderfully.....man, they are expensive.
2. J.P. Holmes/Phil Wilson-have/had knives from both, very thinly ground s90V....cut like a laser....practically forever...really superior edge holding....J.P. passed away in the spring, and it was a sad time....I have 4 of his kitchen knives, two cheese knives, chopstics and a filet knife....real knowledge of the steel.
3. Ed Schempp-Again, real thin steel-got two...one with damascus over carbon core, the other straight carbon....both cut very well, genius ergos, but they rust/stain
4. Devin Thomas-he makes kitchen knives rarely, but when he does, they rock in a big way. Have a composite 6" utility cutter, and I use that one to cut food all day long
5. Tim Wright-he makes one heck of a chef's knife....If I could get a santoku style from him in AEBL, would definitely be a happy camper.
All these guys make real knives to prepare food with....and the thought they put in is astounding....on the Thomas knife that I have, the handles are stabilized wood, and the "ferrule" is black micarta instead of buffalo horn....well produced and considered approach.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
1985-1986-Bedford Seafood on the border between Mt. Kisco and Bedford Hills, NY
1996 Line cook at Emmett Watson's Oyster Bar in Pike Place Market, Seattle, WA
2011-2012 Seafood Team Member, Whole Foods Market
Will make a few observations based upon experience:
1. Soft stainless knives supplied by all three places did not rust, but didn't hold an edge for beans....Dexter-Russell Sani Safe, more off brands than I can shake a stick at....thick edge geometry, easy to sharpen, easy to dull, decent ergos.
2. IN MY EXPERIENCE....non-stainless carbon steel stains white fish cuts....tried for weeks to use a superior cutter custom made out of carbon steel, forced patina, tried everything...didn't work in that environment
3. Thin, hard stainless steel(UHB-AEBL, Sandvik 13C26, 154cpm) has been wonderful to use in kitchen environments, both at home and in professional kitchens......like 20 thou or less at the secondary bevel.
4. It's a lousy cook who blames his tools for failure to produce consistent delicious, nutritious food....but starting with good stuff and maintining it isn't that hard and pays off in the long run. I like to remove variables as much as possible.
Alphabetically:
1. Bill Burke-Made to use, thin, hard steel....balanced wonderfully, cuts forever, handle wonderfully.....man, they are expensive.
2. J.P. Holmes/Phil Wilson-have/had knives from both, very thinly ground s90V....cut like a laser....practically forever...really superior edge holding....J.P. passed away in the spring, and it was a sad time....I have 4 of his kitchen knives, two cheese knives, chopstics and a filet knife....real knowledge of the steel.
3. Ed Schempp-Again, real thin steel-got two...one with damascus over carbon core, the other straight carbon....both cut very well, genius ergos, but they rust/stain
4. Devin Thomas-he makes kitchen knives rarely, but when he does, they rock in a big way. Have a composite 6" utility cutter, and I use that one to cut food all day long
5. Tim Wright-he makes one heck of a chef's knife....If I could get a santoku style from him in AEBL, would definitely be a happy camper.
All these guys make real knives to prepare food with....and the thought they put in is astounding....on the Thomas knife that I have, the handles are stabilized wood, and the "ferrule" is black micarta instead of buffalo horn....well produced and considered approach.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
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I tried to get hold of Phil Wilson, and got no response.
Would love to have one from him. Never returned my mails, so I ended up with a fillet of BB instead
Would love to have one from him. Never returned my mails, so I ended up with a fillet of BB instead
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I have some experience as a commercial cook and more as a full time knife maker.
I personally agree that a good stainless steel like CPM-S35VN or CPM-145 with a proper heat treatment of 59-61 RC make excellent steels for a culinary environment.
Still many like carbon steel for their culinary steels and my understanding is that the Japanese like the way it taint's or flavors the fish. Each to his own?
As far as top five makers? there have been many great makers mentioned here Harner, Haas, Kramer, Carter and I would say there are many more.
I like to look at the individual knife and see if it meets the chore I need accomplished.
Laurence
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Seeing how the majority of the forum are "westerners"
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I have some experience as a commercial cook and more as a full time knife maker.
I personally agree that a good stainless steel like CPM-S35VN or CPM-145 and others you mentioned with a proper heat treatment of 59-61 RC make excellent steels for a culinary environment.
Still many like carbon steel for their culinary steels and my understanding is that the Japanese like the way it taint's or flavors the fish. Each to his own?
As far as top five makers? there have been many great makers mentioned here Harner, Haas, Kramer, Carter and I would say there are many more.
I like to look at the individual knife and see if it meets the chore I need accomplished.
Laurence
Give a credible reference to support your "understanding." On another forum you said, "Carbon steels will rust and add a metallic taste to some fish, Most Japanese actually prefer this sulfur metallic taste that carbon steel adds." You got called out on that idiocy but you're still pushing it.
Of the knives I've used and handled, the five best custom makers are Devin Thomas, Kramer, Marko Tsourkan (who, along with Kramer, makes handles that feel the best in my hand), Butch Harner, Bill Burke and Michael Rader. Okay, six best.
There are lots of excellent production and custom kitchen knives that cut wonderfully, handle so well and take and hold a great edge. Bling handles and true damascus steels are nice, but unnecessary, but working with a balanced well-engineered knife is worth the extra dough for a lot of people.
Still, most really good chefs and cooks do just fine with relatively inexpensive production knives.
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