Vinegaroon.

O

Omega Leather Works

Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
7,743
I whipped up a batch of vinegaroon a couple of hours ago and I'm impressed with its performance. Very impressed.

Test piece.

ZOAEZ7Z.jpg


I've read the threads on this stuff but didn't see an answer to my question.

Is there ANY reason not to use vinegaroon? If the sample is any indication I don't see how Fiebings is superior at all. The coverage is very even, it's as black as black gets and it's very cheap.

I know that the smell is nasty, but it seems like it's dissipating...
 
I have heard of a process that you must do to neutralize that vinegar, if you dont the acid remains and will reconstitute if the leather gets wet. Chuck Burrows has a good tutorial on that subject, you might get in touch with him.

One of its down sides is the time required in the process, for me and how many sheaths I do a month its just not conducive. But its a really cool process anyhow. :)
 
Dwayne, what do you mean by the time the process takes? Do you mean making it? I used it after the wool sat in the vinegar for just a couple of hours. I washed the wool really well with dish soap first, but I'm not sure if that matters. I dipped the leather in the solution and it changed in about a minute. Maybe you mean the added step of neutralizing, I'm glad you brought that up because I totally forgot to do that. :eek:
 
Vinegroon is a great way to dye things that will react with it chemically. It will be superior to most dyes because it produces what is called a positive black, meaning it is totally black, not a mix of greens, browns, or purples. You can also dilute it with water to produce every shade of gray you could want. As you mentioned, be sure to neutralize it, as once it's dry, if water ever works its' way through the finish and into the leather, it could activate the acid again and it could attack the finish from the inside. The best way to neutralize it is a simple mixture of household ammonia and water, preferably distilled. The proportion isn't particularly important, 3 or 4 parts water to 1 part ammonia or so will do. Rinse the leather with that, then a quick rinse with clean water and you're good to go.

Sam :thumbup:
 
Thanks guys. :)

Is there any advantage to letting the wool sit in the solution for an extended period of time? I ask because the solution was clear (a little cloudy) and worked great, but now it's starting to get nasty. The wool is clearly rusting red and it seems to be dissolving.

I'm thinking of removing the wool and straining through a coffee filter. Should I give it more time for some reason?

Also, does this stuff have a shelf life? If so, about how long? That could be one downside. If I have to make it all the time dye may be more convenient in the long run. I'm also not sure if it'll blacken through saddle soap (burnishing) like dye does. Gotta test that.
 
Oh, one other positive... The chem reaction penetrates really well. I beveled the corner on the test piece (was testing my beveler after some additional honing) and the leather was black all the way through the cut. I know that if I'd dyed it the cut would have revealed the natural tan color.
 
As far as the shelf life and the mixture getting nasty, that is all normal. I have had batches last for months to a year or more. I would just keep adding vinegar to the bottle. The best thing to do is just pour it through a coffee filter or cone filter as you said, to get any solids out. Then use it from the second container you poured into. Whatever is left can go back into the original jar. You can use old nails, magnets, pretty much anything with iron that will rust.

You'll have to explain the burnishing part for me, as I don't understand what you mean.

Sam
 
Thanks Sam.

I've tried burnishing in a bunch of different ways. I'm definitely not settled on any one way, but one way that I do it is to bevel the edge with the beveler, then sand to get everything smooth. After that I'll take a little saddle soap and use it like I would gum trag, going over it with the bone folder, a handheld burnisher, or a chucked wood burnisher in the drill press.

The thing that I like about using SS is that dye will penetrate it with no problems, at least in my experience. After dyeing I use beeswax to finish. I've tried gum trag, but I haven't really seen any real improvement over the above method. Very well could be my lack of experience.

I'm not sure if the 'groon will work after using the soap. Maybe the soap will cause a resistance, or maybe not. I'll test that soon.
 
Just my few cents.

I have used it on few sheaths just to see how it works. Gave me colors from blue-grey to deep black. And yes it penetrates all the way through. It's the chemical reaction rather than dyeing. Smell was gone after few days. I have friends who used it for long time. As mentioned before, just add the wool and vinegar as time passes.
Here is an example

img_8401.jpg

micartajade2.jpg


Mat
 
Thanks Matt, nice work. :)

Brings up a question though. I notice that you have brown on the sheath along with the black. Last night I was testing a scrap that I had dyed half of brown. I wanted to know if the chem reaction would change the dyed area, or if the dye might resist the 'groon. The test stamp was small, so it may be worth trying again (depending on yours and others experiences), but the 'groon completely took over the dye and blackened the entire piece.

How can I use this stuff with dyes on the same piece?

As a side, I got brave and sniffed the concoction. It had seemed to stop breaking down the steel. I used 3 wools with about a cup (maybe a little more) of white vinegar. I had read that it stopped smelling so strongly at this stage. While the strong vinegar smell has largely subsided, it has been replaced with another, equally offensive, odor. Hard to describe, but it's like what I would imagine a cup of blood, with a dash of mustard might smell like. :eek: :thumbdown: I went ahead and separated the fresh groon from the wools/sediment and refilled the jar with more vinegar. I also got some baking soda for neutralizing.

I'm still unsure about how this will fit into my sheath making, but the qualities are irrefutable.

Almost forgot. I tried the vinegaroon on a block of bass wood. I didn't much care for the results, but it definitely darkened the wood. I'll certainly try it on other woods to see if there might be a good match. :)
 
Good to see all the testing being done! I love this stuff! :)
 
I have been reading this thread with great interest, but I have to admit that I'm a "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" kind of guy and Feibings and Angelus have been working perfectly or near perfect for years. I'm still interested in your results, but I'm having a hard time trying to justify making the stuff according to the recipe versus just screwing the cap off of a bottle of ready made. Plus being limited to just black is not optimal for me. I needs me some dark brown too!

Plus the fact that I use only drum dyed leathers in four colors to try to eliminate dyes altogether as much as possible.

Paul
 
The time savings alone from drum dyed leather is worth the price of admission. I cant afford to carry the full line yet, but having two colors is a good thing so far. Sitting and waiting for the dye to "even out" or cure in, especially for the Pro Oil Dye is very time consuming. Pre dyed and the assembly is immediate. The cost is almost laughable, but I bit the bullet and the pain lessens with time. :D

But, this is coming from two full time leather smiths, so your mileage may vary. :)
 
I'm definitely not a full-time leather smith, but even I rarely use the vinegroon for dyeing sheaths. I agree that the ready-made dyes are simpler and less-involved. However, for the hobbyist, or when you want to do something a little different, the vinegroon is fun. Where it really shines is antiquing and aging leather or other substrates. Due to the fact that it can be diluted to produce essentially every shade of gray, it has great value in getting that gray, silvery color that comes from being washed out and aging. That, to me anyway, is where I use it the most.

Sam
 
Very good Sam. :) I very much appreciate custom dye applications. Doing a few myself at the moment. Sometimes good old un-dyed veggie tanned leather is necessary. Its like a blank canvas. :D
 
I've got an admission to make...

Part of what got me interested in the first place was my unnatural fear of an open bottle of dye. :eek: :D I don't have a dedicated work space yet, and a turned over bottle of dye would be catastrophic, not just to my work and surrounding area but to the immediate relations with the better half!

Sam I'll have to test a dilution. Thanks for the idea.

Paul, and Dwayne, if you haven't experimented with vinegaroon, you might try it just for fun. It takes only a few minutes. :)
 
Oh yes, nightmares over a tipped bottle of dye. One in particular was my worst fear at the time realized. I still cringe thinking about it. :p
 
Stig if this stuff dye's better aren't you more afraid of it for the same reasons? I'm a hot neatsfoot oil kind of a guy myself, as you know, but drum dyed is the way to go if ya got to have darker colors. All that being said, Mkleathers sheath above looks pretty darn good.
 
Tipped over dye bottle??? Take a 2X6 scrap about 6 inches long and put a hole right in the center of it the size and shape of your dye bottle. Set your dye bottle into that hole when in use and if it does tip over get the hell out of there because you are in an earthquake!

Paul
 
Did I mention I have a teenager and four dogs? Earthquakes are the least of my issues keeping the shop in one piece. :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top