WARNING: To NYC Residents & Tourists

[Monocrom]

I returned to my old neighborhood in Flushing, Queens for the first time in 2 years to visit a dealer with a small knife shop. When I got there, the knives were gone. Now, he sells Fantasy Art sculptures and Flashlights.

Why??

Seems he got arrested for selling tactical folders that could be flicked open. Therefore, the LEOs in my old neighborhood confiscated his entire stock of folders AND they even went to his house and confiscated his huge private collection!

Their excuse was that those knives fell under the classification of gravity knives. (Which are illegal to own, even in one's own home). Never mind the fact that real gravity knives don't fold open.

He told me how the LEOs in NYC are targeting small shops, arresting the owners, and trying to get them to agree to one year in jail or a probation deal. He also pointed out that larger stores are left alone. Why? Because they can afford to have talented and expensive attornys on retainer. For example: Paragoon Sporting Goods on 18th + Broadway, in Manhattan is definitely still selling knives! Target still sells them. So does Dick's Sporting Goods.

What a disgusting way for the city to jack up their arrest numbers! :barf:
The dealer decided to fight. At his Grand Jury hearing he's looking at 2-4 years in prison! A mugger in NYC who recently accidentally shot one of his victims is looking at 4 years himself! The dealer told me that even if he wins, he'll have huge attorny's fees to deal with. This guy isn't a murderer nor a gun-runner. He's a decent human being who sells folding knives to the public, and none of his sales were used as murder weapons by his customers. This is one of the most disgusting and morally bankrupt things that this city has ever done. I'm ashamed to call myself a New Yorker.....

And, the cops are also cracking down on anyone who walks around with a clip at the top of their pants pocket. He had some horror stories about that too. Including an MTA, city worker in full uniform who was arrested for carrying a 2-inch bladed Spyderco "gravity knife." :grumpy:

Best to slip your folder completely into your pocket if you live or plan on visiting NYC anytime soon

 

[moonwilson]

Good Lord! Thanks for the heads up, I'll keep it in mind next time I'm in the city. I wonder if this has anything to do with the recent Wall St. Journal article. Is this the way of the future for the rest of the country?

 

[bubinga]

I know him and he's a great guy who deserves better.
I used to go to visit dealers in NYC and won't take the chance anymore.

It seems like NYPD officers are grossly misinterpreting the laws--if they can somehow flick open a SAK, it's illegal, etc. Who's going to take them on and do something about this?

 

[Cougar Allen]

 

[Monocrom]

Is this the way of the future for the rest of the country?

God I hope not!

Hopefully, common sense and moral decency are still alive & well in other parts of America.

 

[JPD1998]

I'm an ex- NYC resident too, I moved upstate about 12 years ago and never looked back. Unfortunately as more down-staters move up here, the attitude towards things like firearms and knives changes too.

In urban areas it's getting to the point where criminals are so sure a person is unarmed they merely kick your door in and rob you inside your home, they call it " home invasions" It's been happening mostly in urban areas of Long Island. But the sheeple accept this.....

 

[jerrinfla]

I know him and he's a great guy who deserves better.
I used to go to visit dealers in NYC and won't take the chance anymore.

It seems like NYPD officers are grossly misinterpreting the laws--if they can somehow flick open a SAK, it's illegal, etc. Who's going to take them on and do something about this?

It sounds like they are enforcing the law a lot more severely than when I was a NYC cop back in 1970-1983, but it's not a case of misinterpreting the law in NYS as it's written in the penal code. A gravity knife was defined as such back then, too.

" 5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device. "

Scroll down to section 265.01
http://wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/web/NewYork/ny3(b).htm

 

[Whoever Wherever]

THIS IS THE TIME TO ACT! I say we start the N.K.A. right now. Not now but RIGHT NOW. I for one am sick of any knife law on the books just standing even if it's outdated and has no effect on crime or violence. I am sick of the police getting to decide what is a pocket knife and what is a deadly weapon. I am sick of CCW's not giving you the right to have a knife on you. The knife comunity is getting bent over left and right and its time we assert ourselves. Flicking your knife open is NOT gravity or centrifugal force, it is starting the action with your hand and allowing centrifugal force complete the opening. Since the knives in his shop are all new I doubt very much that they can be opened by gravity or centrifugal force without direct help from the user. National Knife Association anyone? A gravity knife is deffined the same in evry state I have lived in and has never meant flippers or a blade with a smooth enough action to flick. This is a gross misinterpretaion of the law and I spit on whoever authorized these nazi raids. The fact that they target easy to crush private owned business that cannot afford lawyer fees and will probably agree to a plee bargain is disgustong beyong measure. How dare they terrorize citizens trying to live the American dream. They know a real lawyaer would destroy them in court so they dont even touch the big guys. They are all in gross violation of the trust and duty that has been assigned to them. I am ashamed of these Americans.

Maoderators this should go back in blade discussion as it is about an injustice and will be most likely overlooked in fnife laws where I think people are looking for more specific imormation. juts my 2 cents though. I do belive this is about more than knife laws.

 

[Monocrom]

It sounds like they are enforcing the law a lot more severely than when I was a NYC cop back in 1970-1983, but it's not a case of misinterpreting the law in NYS as it's written in the penal code. A gravity knife was defined as such back then, too.

" 5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device. "

Scroll down to section 265.01
http://wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/web/NewYork/ny3(b).htm

With all due respect, how does flicking a knife open in mid air, with a wrist-snap even involve gravity??

Actual gravity knives that soldiers were once issued, open out the front by first pointing the knife straight down, and actually using gravity to help open it. This is just a pathetic attempt to harass small business owners.

If a law is going to be enforced, no matter how ridiculous it might seem to others, it should be enforced across the board. Why are the Bigger stores not being harassed or targeted. Possibly because those stores have the money to fight back in a courtroom without going bankrupt? Unlike a small business owner.

That's the thing I find to be morally disgusting. The officers doing this are using the law against gravity knives as an excuse to harass small business owners who don't have the funds to contest their actions in court, and they know it! I call it as I see it. This is B.S., plain and simple. And the officers taking part in it know it too.... They just don't care.

"Excuse me officer, but what's that clipped to the top of your pocket?"

The dealer I mentioned.... the 109 Police Precinct is 3 blocks up the street. Guess who some of his best customers used to be. :grumpy:

 

[JPD1998]

Monocrom

I agree... I thought a gravity knife was an OTF knife that could be drawn out by depressing a button and using the force of gravity to drop the blade out ( and locked). Or a switchblade type knife that was lacking any spring and could be flipped open by just the force of gravity (after some kind of button was depressed).

I thought a Benchmade type Axis lock knife was not a gravity knife and could be adjusted even further to avoid any confusion.

 

[hlee]

It (the opening of a knife by the use of a wrist snap) involves gravity in that the difinition of a gravity knife according to the New York State penal code includes knives that open by centrifugal force. This is probably happening because the DA wants to look tough on crime and "gravity knives" and the small business owners who sell them are easy targets. Elect a DA with different priorities and this will probably cease. I live about an hour from "the city" but NYC will get very few of my tourist dollars.

 

[drano]

With all due respect, how does flicking a knife open in mid air, with a wrist-snap even involve gravity??

mabey you missed the deffinition.

" 5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device. "

Scroll down to section 265.01
http://wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/web/NewYork/ny3(b).htm

oops! diddnt read hlee's post carefully

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

Damn near everything is illegal in NYC/NYS.

If you kick an attacker, your "shod foot" will result in a weapon possession charge. CCW permits are difficult to get upstate, and impossible to get in the City -- and possession of an unlicenced handgun (even if it's locked in the trunk of your car) is a felony with a maximum sentence of 7 years in prison.

 

[tom19176]

The law has been the same since the 1950s in NYS/NYC. The intent of the law was to ban the true gravity knives that allowed the "release" of the blade from the handle ( Not the opening of it). The knife that was presented for review back then was a true gravity knife that the blade was released from the handle ( a paratrooper type knife) and a large switchblade stiletto was shown to represent the auto. This is what the law was passed to ban but the wording was understood to include any knife that can be flicked open sometime in the late 1960s. The courts have upheld the gravity knife to be any knife that can be flicked open----even if you hold the blade and flick open the handle !!! It is not fair, and not what the law was intended to ban, but the courts had created case law that allows this arrest. The larger stores do indeed sell them and the reason for the arrest a few years ago was due to gang activity and knife recovery from gang members who stated where they bought the knives. Five stores were raided the same day.

 

[EmsRescueGuy]

THIS IS THE TIME TO ACT! I say we start the N.K.A. right now. .

There is now a national knife organization that i have read about I cant remember the name offhand but im sure if you look throught enough posts here you will find it.

I believe i saw an article on it on Equipped to surveve.com

you may want to try joining the NRA. Many of the laws effecting gun owners effect all "weapons" including knives. Domestic violence statutes, Weapon free schooll zones, and others effect an SAK owner as much as the owner of a Glock.

If knife owners began joining the NRA you could pettition them to establish a knife law branch plus their ranks would swell to a point where they could not be ignored by anyone.

The NRA has used tactics like mass member callings and letter campaigns to politicians to stop a host of crazy anti gun laws that were knee jerk reactions to incidents like collumbine.

If Knife owners added your voiced to the choir, Imagine what we could do.

 

[Argyll]

THIS IS THE TIME TO ACT! I say we start the N.K.A. right now. Not now but RIGHT NOW. .

There is now a national knife organization that i have read about I cant remember the name offhand but im sure if you look throught enough posts here you will find it.
.

Guys, there are already two organizations. One was mentioned in post no. 2 in this thread, the USKTA, the other the AKTI has a forum right here at this very website, under manufacturers.

Sadly, the arrests of NYC store owners for selling normal knives made by reputable companies, such as Benchmade and Spyderco, has been widely reported and discussed in the past here at Bladeforums.

Best regards,

Argyll

P.S. BigJimSlade, a KFM fan, eh?

 

[Monocrom]

Sadly, the arrests of NYC store owners for selling normal knives made by reputable companies, such as Benchmade and Spyderco, has been widely reported and discussed in the past here at Bladeforums.

Only now it has gotten far worse with store owners being told they'll have to do jail-time as part of their plea-bargain. Those who refuse to put up with this blatant B.S. and harassment, automatically face felony charges when the case goes before a Grand Jury.

Not one intelligent human being on these forums, not even an active NYPD Officer can say that this sort of thing is perfectly justified.

 

[JPD1998]

Only now it has gotten far worse with store owners being told they'll have to do jail-time as part of their plea-bargain. Those who refuse to put up with this blatant B.S. and harassment, automatically face felony charges when the case goes before a Grand Jury.

Not one intelligent human being on these forums, not even an active NYPD Officer can say that this sort of thing is perfectly justified.

Unforunately it's not justified, but we've created this huge machine and now it's getting out of control. The last thing any law abiding citizen wants is to get sucked into this machine.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

One less place for me to visit, I guess. Bunch of Nazis.

 

[Gadgetman7]

Okay...so why don't we set up a defense fund for the shop owner? If we could get a sticky on the main discussion board maybe we could take up a collection. (I don't know how the moderators will feel about it though)