What blade steels won't throw sparks?

V

Vivi

BANNED
Joined
Dec 4, 2005
Messages
5,095
I remember reading on here at some point in time that certain blade steels do not throw sparks off a ferro rod, or do not do it very well. What are these steels? I started trying out different steels recently and was thinking about adding this info to my reviews, but after trying 5 or so knives they all worked. I tried ZDP189, H1, AUS8, S30V, VG10, 1095 and 52100 and they all worked pretty well.
 
I think what you read was that stainless steels do not throw sparks from flint as well as high carbon steels. If at all. Anything hard enough with a sharp edge will throw sparks from a ferro rod. Some here have even used glass.
 
Pretty much sharp and relatively hard enough object will throw a spark from a ferro rod (aka ferrocium rod, metal match, mish-metal). Could be stainless steel, high carbon steel, your keys, a sharp rock, etc.

What you are probably refering to is the ability of the knife to throw a spark. In the case of the flint/steel method, a sharp rock (flint or chert) is used to flake off a piece of steel from the knife in the form of the spark. In this case, stainless steel is too hard and it will not work. High carbon steel works well for the "mountain man" method of making fire. Note the spark from this method is very weak compared to using a ferro rod. See here...





So to recap, when using a ferro rod, the spark is coming off the rod and is rather strong and any steel with a sharp edge should work; whereas in the flint/steel method, the (weak) spark is coming off the knife steel so the steel must be of high carbon, not stainless.
 
it is a fairly common misconception that firesteels somehow work better with carbon steel, but they work by using the friction of a sharp edge scraping off the pieces of metal to create heat, making the pieces of metal into glowing sparks. therefore, any sharp edge will work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3ZTU5EL8PY
 
Firesteel (a.k.a. Ferro. Rod) =/= Flint and steel, a lot of people mix them up and help spread this falsehood of carbon steel and Firesteels. The former involves a modern compound design to cast hot sparks when scraped against the edge anything hard enough (SS, HCS, glass, rocks, etc.), the later however is a rock and a piece of capable steel -- stainless is typically useless for this role, high carbon steel contains the requisites that are needed in order to throw off enough heat to catch fungus/charcloth.
 
My understanding is anything with a Rockwell hardness of lower than 50 has a really hard time throwing sparks from a ferro rod. If it's hard enough, it will spark, no matter what it is.
 
I think Bear Grylls has added to the Flint Vs Ferro rod confusion.
He is always calling his ferro rod his "flint".
 
Thanks for clearing that up. I was getting confused and thought I must of read something incorrectly, because as mentioned even non-steel items were throwing sparks for me.
 
I wonder why flint (chert, jasper, quartz, obsidian) can't shave a "spark" (molten steel) off SS.

Not a hardness issue since carbon steel in the range of knife hardness works better than softer carbon steel.

Crystaline structure? Carbides too big so they just fracture off instead of being cut off?
 
Stainless Steel is very low in iron. Iron is what is making the spark. Iron self ignites when exposed to air. The process is called oxidation. When you use a knife of 1095 steel to make a spark what you are actually doing is exposing minute particles of iron to air and they self ignite at a very high temp; i.e. a spark. Old iron rusting in a field has to small of a surface area to it's mass to get "hot" as it oxidizes, however, a shaved particle of iron has a very large surface area to it's mass and as it is shaved off and exposed to the air it oxidizes very rapidly and therefore a spark is born. Chromium is absent in 1095 steel knives but stainless steel knives have enough chromium in them to effectively shield the iron from the oxidation process. I hope this clears the matter up as you apparently have waited a very long time for the correct answer.
 
OregonDave said:
Stainless Steel is very low in iron. Iron is what is making the spark. Iron self ignites when exposed to air. The process is called oxidation. When you use a knife of 1095 steel to make a spark what you are actually doing is exposing minute particles of iron to air and they self ignite at a very high temp; i.e. a spark. Old iron rusting in a field has to small of a surface area to it's mass to get "hot" as it oxidizes, however, a shaved particle of iron has a very large surface area to it's mass and as it is shaved off and exposed to the air it oxidizes very rapidly and therefore a spark is born. Chromium is absent in 1095 steel knives but stainless steel knives have enough chromium in them to effectively shield the iron from the oxidation process. I hope this clears the matter up as you apparently have waited a very long time for the correct answer.
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave.
 
Old thread but a good ending... shuttin'er down, though.

Re-opened

Sorry... closed it too soon. A member messaged me and pointed out that one of the last posts stated that stainless steel had less iron content. That isn't true. The part about having enough alloy content to inhibit rapid oxidation IS true. Carbon is necessary as well. Hardness plays a significant role by allowing the material to "chip" off rather than deform and stay attached.
 
Last edited:
Laminated blades where the sandwich metal can be too soft
I cannot make sparks from the back of Mora Laminated blades
 
With a new type CPM 3V on a Survive Knife there is a huge shower of sparks ,should start anything .!!
 
abo4ster said:
Pretty much sharp and relatively hard enough object will throw a spark from a ferro rod (aka ferrocium rod, metal match, mish-metal). Could be stainless steel, high carbon steel, your keys, a sharp rock, etc.

What you are probably refering to is the ability of the knife to throw a spark. In the case of the flint/steel method, a sharp rock (flint or chert) is used to flake off a piece of steel from the knife in the form of the spark. In this case, stainless steel is too hard and it will not work. High carbon steel works well for the "mountain man" method of making fire. Note the spark from this method is very weak compared to using a ferro rod. See here...





So to recap, when using a ferro rod, the spark is coming off the rod and is rather strong and any steel with a sharp edge should work; whereas in the flint/steel method, the (weak) spark is coming off the knife steel so the steel must be of high carbon, not stainless.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure you are wrong about the "stainless being too hard." It's the corrosion resistance of stainless steel that prevents if from oxidizing rapidly, which is necessary for ignition. The harder, the better, because I don't think any steel is harder than flint.
 
Three different conversations here and a very old thread. In general, if a thread is over a year old, there is probably a newer one worth replying to or it's worth starting a new one. No huge worry, but in general it keeps things neater to read old threads but only post to new ones. Also, you will find that a lot of opinions have changed over time, as have materials and tech, so it becomes unfair to people who may have changed their POV on a subject to bring up an old thread when they would be better served by having a chance to answer a more current question. Lastly, as a new member, if people associate your name with necro-posts, you end up on a lot of ignore lists. It is what it is. Sorry if this sounds a bit gate keepy, I don't intend it as such, I was helped way back and I hope only to do the same.

Kcsstrat said:
Pretty sure you are wrong about the "stainless being too hard." It's the corrosion resistance of stainless steel that prevents if from oxidizing rapidly, which is necessary for ignition. The harder, the better, because I don't think any steel is harder than flint.
Click to expand...
 
OregonDave said:
Stainless Steel is very low in iron. Iron is what is making the spark. Iron self ignites when exposed to air. The process is called oxidation. When you use a knife of 1095 steel to make a spark what you are actually doing is exposing minute particles of iron to air and they self ignite at a very high temp; i.e. a spark. Old iron rusting in a field has to small of a surface area to it's mass to get "hot" as it oxidizes, however, a shaved particle of iron has a very large surface area to it's mass and as it is shaved off and exposed to the air it oxidizes very rapidly and therefore a spark is born. Chromium is absent in 1095 steel knives but stainless steel knives have enough chromium in them to effectively shield the iron from the oxidation process. I hope this clears the matter up as you apparently have waited a very long time for the correct answer.
Click to expand...
440C is 82.5% iron. Iron is far and away the primary ingredient of any "steel."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top