"1085 forging steel"

J

Jason Volkert

Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
243
Has anybody used this steel "Japanese Cutlery 1085 Forging Steel" ? Pop's is selling it. When they first put it on there site for sale like 2 months or so ago, They went on Instagram and there claim was "Jason Knight uses it and loves it". They also said "Makes a good Hamon". I bought some haven't used it yet. I messaged them on Instagram and asked them what the heat treat protocol for it and what was the chemistry on it. When they messaged me back they said "Heat treat like 1084" and just didn't say anything about the chemistry. So does anybody know or have any experience with this steel>

Jason
 
I have never worked with “pops” personally but people here say good things. But to me not disclosing alloy content on some mistery steel is not kosher. Hell it could just be recycled rail road track. Which is not bad in of it’s self but I should as hell would at least publish the alloy. You know what I did a bunch of testing on railroad track back in the day and cane to the conclusion it was around 1084 and it would produce a hamone. Now that would be funny wouldn’t it. If thy continue to refuse to disclose the mix we could send a chunk out for testing.
 
I sent them an email, let’s see if we can get this sorted out. I also need to know for my heat treating binder.
 
My guess is it is the same/similar to the Japanese Vanadium Forgiong steel that Dictum carries. Carbon varies between .70 and .85 %, vanadium at .1 to .15%, low manganese. Comes in round stock 1 meter by 19mm for $38.
 
What is the V content of the 1086m that Howard Clark uses? IIRC, Don Hanson had a bit of that stuff a number of years back.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
My guess is it is the same/similar to the Japanese Vanadium Forgiong steel that Dictum carries. Carbon varies between .70 and .85 %, vanadium at .1 to .15%, low manganese. Comes in round stock 1 meter by 19mm for $38.
Click to expand...
 
I can only comment on what I demand. Give me the steel composition, or I won’t buy it (or recommend it). It’s that simple. If you can’t give me the steel composition you’re selling, I won’t buy it. Why should I? How can I heat treat it? “Heat treat it like 1084” means nothing to me, for obvious reasons. But I know the reputation Pops has, even with the new owners. It’s a good one. Let’s hear from them, hopefully.

GIVE THE ALLOY CONTENT!!!!!!
 
1085 is a newish steel to us. Only person I know of that has had it produced is a guy by the name of britt barnes. He then sold some of his stock to pops and made an agreement (from my understanding) to only do business with them. Hes posted the alloy content on various Facebook bladesmith pages. I messaged him and asked for his alloy cert I mentioned hes posted. When he sends it I will post it up here
 
pwUoReA.jpg


Here you go gentlemen
 
Looks like the data sheet for 1080 or 1084 to me.
1084 - Element Content (%)
Iron, Fe 98.08 - 98.6
Carbon, C 0.800 - 0.930
Manganese, Mn 0.60 - 0.90
Phosphorous, P 0.050
Sulfur, S 0.040

1080 - Element Content (%)
Iron, Fe 98.0 - 99.0
Carbon, C 0.75 - 0.88
Manganese, Mn 0.60 - 0.90
Sulfur, S 0.05 (max)
Phosphorous, P 0.04 (max)
 
I was going to say that if that is the chemistry, then it is not ideal for hamons with that manganese content. It has no vanadium listed, so it isn't like that Japanese steel, 1086M or even Aldo's early batches of 1084FG. With that said, would that .15-.35% dose of silicon perhaps make for a lightly tougher version of an already fairly tough mix like 1080/1084?
Justin Schmidt said:
pwUoReA.jpg


Here you go gentlemen
Click to expand...

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Looks like the data sheet for 1080 or 1084 to me.
1084 - Element Content (%)
Iron, Fe 98.08 - 98.6
Carbon, C 0.800 - 0.930
Manganese, Mn 0.60 - 0.90
Phosphorous, P 0.050
Sulfur, S 0.040

1080 - Element Content (%)
Iron, Fe 98.0 - 99.0
Carbon, C 0.75 - 0.88
Manganese, Mn 0.60 - 0.90
Sulfur, S 0.05 (max)
Phosphorous, P 0.04 (max)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Funny it says “Kobe works”
Was that not the Japanese steel plant that was found to have falsified date to customers. Ended up being a huge thing and costing them crazy amounts of money.
 
Yes, the form ( and steel?) is from Kobe Steel Works. They falsified the steel test data on strength on steel used for airplanes. BIG scandal.


Here is a comparison graph of AISI 1080/1084/1085:
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=1080, 1084, 1085&hrn=1&gm=0

Z-knives doesn't list the SI in the chart below the graph for any of them.
My other charts show .20 to .40% Si. for 1080; .10 to .30% for 1084; and .25 to .50% for 1085.
 
Stacy would that silicon be one possible reason that 1084 score that much better than 1095in Larrins tests?
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Yes, the form ( and steel?) is from Kobe Steel Works. They falsified the steel test data on strength on steel used for airplanes. BIG scandal.


Here is a comparison graph of AISI 1080/1084/1085:
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=1080, 1084, 1085&hrn=1&gm=0

Z-knives doesn't list the SI in the chart below the graph for any of them.
My other charts show .20 to .40% Si. for 1080; .10 to .30% for 1084; and .25 to .50% for 1085.
Click to expand...
 
I haven’t had my stock analyzed, but it acts like it’s over 0.9% carbon. This stuff shows no benefit over 1080/1084, as far as I can tell.
 
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