1095 steel/hardening/quenching

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I guess I've obviously struck a chord. I think that in itself qualifies my perspective.

... but just look around.

come on tai, lets hear this "metallurgical gibberish" ! You brought it up, you seemingly have an axe to grind, so here's your chance

Nothing has been "qualified" as you put it- terrible debate tactic BTW, never works.

The floor is yours Tai. Give examples of "metallurgical gibberish" .More to the point, how about examples that have been posted here, on this forum, given in order to help -and why they're gibberish. I think it would be good to cut through any confusion in order to help others.
 
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Some really good reading here you guys! I just ordered some 1095 so I cant wait to play with it :)
 
come on tai, lets hear this "metallurgical gibberish" ! You brought it up, you seemingly have an axe to grind, so here's your chance

Nothing has been "qualified" as you put it- terrible debate tactic BTW, never works.

The floor is yours Tai. Give examples of "metallurgical gibberish" .More to the point, how about examples that have been posted here, on this forum, given in order to help -and why they're gibberish. I think it would be good to cut through any confusion in order to help others.

Look, if you can't/won't, don't want to or are incapable of seeing it on your own, me listing examples and pointing my finger isn't going to help. It will only inflame the issue. So,... I respectfully decline.
 
1095 makes a very good knife when quenched properly in canola oil. Is there a more optimal quenching method? Probably.
Ultimate heat treating does not make a knife. Design and proper grind are equally important-possibly more important.
Studies that reveal ultimate processes are good, as we all learn from them-but using "ultimate" practices is usually impractical.
 
Look, if you can't/won't, don't want to or are incapable of seeing it on your own, me listing examples and pointing my finger isn't going to help. It will only inflame the issue. So,... I respectfully decline.

you already did. I'd suggest in the future you don't start it if you don't have the ability to back it up.

What I see are people willing to help, giving text book basic information as a starting point and you calling it "gibbrish". Grow up Tai.
 
1095 makes a very good knife when quenched properly in canola oil. Is there a more optimal quenching method? Probably.
Ultimate heat treating does not make a knife. Design and proper grind are equally important-possibly more important.
Studies that reveal ultimate processes are good, as we all learn from them-but using "ultimate" practices is usually impractical.


Good points. :)
 
The other night, on a whim (and the individual who knows why will hopefully get a chuckle out of this) I went searching for "Koan of Forging" and landed this:
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=286
It is a worthwhile read from the standpoint that those metallurgical smiths among us on BF (and have already chimed in on this thread) should choose to voice their own qualms over the "given" standards, and even more cathartic for a beginner such as I see the noted experts themselves unsure.

However, to that end, it should be no surprise that Stacy hold to the book for treating 1095 and the good professor voice the opinion that if we hold a grind to greater than the dime's width we'd be able to use quicker, riskier quenching mediums.
I'm forging my first W2 blade, the edge is currently 1/8th and as I forge juggling thoughts of #50 and Kevin's words, "Water, and if you wait long enough, it's free." While I can speculate and weigh my options, there's the given fact his words are spoken in the tone of someone tired of the debate after a long studious career and obligations elsewhere after so many beginners skip searching and have to ask.
Bringing in another chapter in an already on going volume that would make Tolstoy blush.
And the same goes for Tai.
He at least has a sense of humor about it.
In this trade we must be wary we sit atop the shoulders of giants.

Studies that reveal ultimate processes are good, as we all learn from them-but using "ultimate" practices is usually impractical.
Mr. DeShivs is correct in this, as was well debated in Tai's "Pet Peeves" thread in Around The Grinder.
Science is not about absolutes, but the promise for an understanding of only just so many "whys" and "hows."
There is a fundamental issue, however, in that the answers only provide the doorway to further questions.
In this respect, we must respect what defines an expert is the number of failed attempts. For everyone one success we must have failures to understand the whys and hows.
We've seen one Kung Fu reference here, another in the thread I linked, and I'll do so here now:
I seek not to know the Answers, but understand the Questions

The biggest issue any of us can have in this field is just so many consistent answers:
"Is optimum performance needed here?"
"Where in the solution do I need a weaker constitution to avoid frailty?"
"Can I do this?"

As has been voiced in so many words time and again, we can precipitously calculate only so many variables to provide so many predictable outcomes on so many desires--there is no precise way to narrow to a specific that will produce a singular outcome consistently time and again.
 
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Canola will work. Brine will work better. Water quenching is always risky, because the suppliers are talking about far thicker cross sections than what we are dealing with. You can use canola and get a decent blade, but 1095 needs a super fast quench, if i am not mistaken, it needs to drop to under 1000 degrees in the first second. For someone making a lot of knives, an investment in 5 gallons of Park's #50 might not be a bad idea. Here is some good info off Kevin Cashen's website regarding 1095.
http://cashenblades.com/steel/1095.html

Hope this helps.
Is heat treating brine literally just salt and water?
 
I posted a reply yesterday, but apparently it never got in the system.???????

Yes brine is 3/4 to one pound salt per gallon of water.

Closing this thread due to being an older one. Good info, but nothing ground breaking.
 
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