154CM vs. S30V vs. VG-10 in the real world....

I dont know it seems like alot of people don't care for 154cm. Today my Zero Tolerance went through 4 layers of aluminum. The edge is rolled in some areas but a simple pass over the stones a few times will correct that. Not to sound snobbish at all Ankerson but, if you cant tell the difference on day to day use, then how can you tell the difference in controlled tests?
 
Steel130 said:
I dont know it seems like alot of people don't care for 154cm. Today my Zero Tolerance went through 4 layers of aluminum. The edge is rolled in some areas but a simple pass over the stones a few times will correct that. Not to sound snobbish at all Ankerson but, if you cant tell the difference on day to day use, then how can you tell the difference in controlled tests?
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I think that you answered your own question there, Steel. The key word is 'controlled', where the materials cut, usage and frequency can be monitored. The final comparison can be anything from cutting toilet paper to shaving hairs. As long as the maximum variables are controlled, you can at the very least say that knife 'A' holds the edge longer than knife 'B'.
 
Ankerson said:
I would take S30V over the other 2 for my uses.

For what most people really do with their knives they couldn't tell the difference between the 3 if the blades weren't marked.
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Steel130 said:
I dont know it seems like alot of people don't care for 154cm. Today my Zero Tolerance went through 4 layers of aluminum. The edge is rolled in some areas but a simple pass over the stones a few times will correct that. Not to sound snobbish at all Ankerson but, if you cant tell the difference on day to day use, then how can you tell the difference in controlled tests?
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I can tell the difference, but then I do more than use my blades as flip toys and pocket ornaments or open a bag of chips once in awhile. ;)

There is a small percentage of people who really use their knives for more than the above on the forums, most of the real users aren't on the forums, they just use their knives and move on.
 
I would consider my self a user. I can tell the differences in some steels like 14c28n has a huge difference compared to 154 or vg10. I don't baby my knives I like em rough:D.
 
Ankerson said:
I can tell the difference, but then I do more than use my blades as flip toys and pocket ornaments or open a bag of chips once in awhile. ;)

There is a small percentage of people who really use their knives for more than the above on the forums, most of the real users aren't on the forums, they just use their knives and move on.
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Yeah, you swipe cardboard from the post office and cut up a small mountain of cardboard pieces;).

I'll give that a try sometime:thumbup:.
 
Steel130 said:
I would consider my self a user. I can tell the differences in some steels like 14c28n has a huge difference compared to 154 or vg10. I don't baby my knives I like em rough:D.
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The last line made me cringe a little.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Yeah, you swipe cardboard from the post office and cut up a small mountain of cardboard pieces;).

I'll give that a try sometime:thumbup:.
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I cut cardboard and other stuff everyday at work.

I don't get the cardboard from the PO that I use for testing, I get it from work.

Started using S30V again for awhile at work instead of S90V.
 
I have noticed 154cm has become more popular with the better custom knife makers this year. Everything was s30v or s35v last year. This year 154cm seems to made a come back and I am glad. Kirby Lambert is making a lot of his knives this year with 154cm.. Of course not all 154cm is equal. These guys really know how to heat treat a blade.
 
mystro said:
I have noticed 154cm has become more popular with the better custom knife makers. Everything was s30v or s35v last year. This year 154cm seems to made a come back and I am glad. Kirby Lambert is making a lot of his knives this year with 154cm.. Of course not all 154cm is equal. These guys really know how to heat treat a blade.
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154cm is a very good steel with good HT. :)
 
I own knives with all 3 of these steels and I tend to use my knives with more expensive steels for lighter tasks; consequently, they stay sharp for an extremely long time. When I'm doing something that I know will dull a blade quickly, I usually end up using a knife with a less fancy steel since I'm going to end up sharpening it soon anyway.

For instance, in my kitchen I have a few Kershaw Shun VG-10 knives and a few cheap Kershaw Komachi knives. The hard use is all on the Komachi knives. When I need precise cuts from a scary sharp knife and wish to be careful with my blade, I use the Shun knives. When I need to cut some not yet fully thawed meat, work around bone, etc. I use the cheap knives. The thing is, I actually really enjoy sharpening knives, so even my cheap knives are typically very sharp. It would bother me if I were to chip the blade of one of my nice knives, which is why I have a mix of nice knives and cheap knives.

VG-10 does seem pretty close to 154CM/ATS34. I can't tell the difference. I can tell the difference between those steels and S30V though. As someone else mentioned, S30V also feels very different while sharpening--it really does feel like it's gliding on the stones.
 
Correction to my earlier thread, Kirby Lambert is using CPM 154. It is different than 154cm being that it is a powder steel. I should also add, CPM 154 polishes and looks nicer than S30V so that is a big reason high dollar customs have it.
 
If you really wanna see what your knife steel is capable of, try cutting some composition shingles. That will destroy an edge within minutes. Fiberglass and sand/ceramic and asphalt are quite the edge destroyer. I've learned the hard way, thats why I use these ;)
9dbc219786406992c8112b610f5e.jpg
 
This might be a bit off-topic, but diamond-based stones and DMT/Lansky/Sharpmaker systems should be able to handle steels which are said to be more time-consuming to sharpen e.g. S30V and D2 (I don't own any knives in these two steels yet).

I find 154CM and VG10 both reasonably easy to sharpen on a DMT diafold (325/600 grit) and a KAI DG-370 aluminum oxide combination stone (500 grit/1200 grit).

As an ordinary guy using folding knives for EDC and light work, I too don't find much difference between VG-10 and 154CM.

One question to those who own S30V blades and use waterstones, would S30V take longer than VG-10 and 154CM to sharpen?

@ibute21
11-961A - 100-Pack Regular Hook Blade with Dispenser
Features and Benefits
Edge protection blade for cutting and trimming roofing materials, linoleum, carpet, fabric, cartons and sheet materials
Blade shape helps prevent damage to whatever is beneath material being cut
Fits most standard utility knives
Length 2-1/16",52.39mm
Packed 100/Dispenser
Thickness .024"
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I wouldn't touch these "composition shingles" with my EDC folder, they are nowhere as wear resistant as S90V or S110V etc. :eek:
 
The biggest difference for me is that S30V will lose that super sharp edge pretty quickly but keep a sharp working edge that will still cut paper, while the other two would simply degrade at a normal rate, probably needing a sharpening about twice as much. However, it is much easier to sharpen the VG-10 and 154cm, and easier to bring the edge to hair shaving sharp. They are the sort of steels that are a pleasure to work with, and a great middle ground for edge holding versus ease of sharpening.
 
If you notice a difference in these steels during normal daily use, it's not the steels, it's you.
 
me2 said:
If you notice a difference in these steels during normal daily use, it's not the steels, it's you.
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If your use is light, perhaps. If you actually USE them to the point where they will go dull halfway through the day, or in a day or two, then there is a pretty large difference between them.
 
I'm a big fan of 154cm as long as its from a quality knife maker like Benchmade and I tend to think of 154cm as the standard of "baseline" quality steels and from there some go up a little or down in comparison. I also agree with several people here that if you don't actually USE your knife and test its abilities then they all feel the same and you don't need a super steel to open the mail. A good way to compare your steels is to do a good bit of whittling, I don't mean go crazy trying to cut a tree down with a pocket knife but actually 20-30 minutes at least per knife and see how the edges change from shaving sharp to hopefully still a functionally sharp edge and then the effort to resharpen the blade. I personally would choose S30V over 154cm as long as the cost difference isn't bad, but I have been using a lot of M390 lately and it is currently my favorite steel for all reasons we have said.
 
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