20" Gelbu Special vs. 25" Kumar Kobra

Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
8
Hi guys, I thought you might be interested in the relative abilities of my 2 H.I. khuks as I have had the opportunity this weekend of putting them through their paces in removing a few 3"-4" diameter oak trees that my Dad wanted clearing from the bottom of his garden.

The first khuk I got from Uncle Bill (after poring over the forum archives) was a 20" GS made by Bura. I had read nothing but good reports and, of course, it carried Pala's highest recommendation.
Then HIKV kicked in and thanks mainly to Tom Holt's excellent reviews of the 25" Kobra I ordered another Bura made beauty. Each knife arrived "chopping sharp" and I quickly brought the edges up to the point where they would easily shave hair from my arms.

Both blades are similar in weight, but totally different in feel and I simply had to find out how this "feel" translated into chopping efficiency. The GS is horn handled, weighs 25oz and balances 3.25 inches in front of the bolster. The Kobra is wood handled, weighs 27.5oz and balances 6 inches in front of the bolster.

The GS feels every inch the weapon. Very well balanced in the hand and very quick for multiple strikes. The Kobra, on the other hand, feels considerably heavier, due to the centre of mass being further from the hand. It does, however, feel aggressive and eager and moves through the air with alarming speed. Multiple strikes are a little slower than with the GS.

The test began with the GS and a tree some 3.5" in diameter. I tried to keep all my swings the same so that the comparison could have at least some degree of meaningful accuracy. Each swing was a diagonal, full power hit with hips, shoulder, arm and wrist all playing a part.

The GS bit deeply into the tree, cutting it down completely in 6 hits. I was very pleased with the performance of the GS. There was no trace of vibration or handshock and I certainly felt that no other big knife could have felled this tree any easier.

I was wrong.

Whilst I had high expectations of the Kobra, it is fair to say that I was stunned by its brutal hacking power and the awesome ease with which the Kobra dispatched the next tree. Two hits and it was down. This was a tree some 4" in diameter. I then moved on to the final tree(just over 3" wide). My first hit almost went right through and before I could take a second swing it fell down. Three hits with the Kobra had felled two small trees! Again, no handshock or vibration at all. Tom, this knife is everything you said it was, many thanks!

Also many thanks to Uncle Bill and to Bura for giving me two superb examples of these great knives. Although at this point I didn't need any further confirmation of Bura's skill I was nevertheless delighted to find that both blades were still absolutely hair-popping sharp after the test.

In conclusion, I would suggest that the martial artist or soldier would prefer the quickness, balance and compactness of the Gelbu Special. However should a dragon ever start misbehaving in my neighbourhood, I know which khukuri I'll be reaching for.
 
Thanks for the information. I did the same as you and read Tom Holt's good recommendations for the 25" Kobra, and I just sent my order on Friday by snail mail. I look forward to recieve it and have a similair experience as your's.

Keep up the good work in your father's garden. :D

Greetings
 
Steve G's testing to me suggests the Kobra has leverage...Some of you physics people could probably explain it... I would be curious to see how an 18" or 20" Ak would test against the 25" Kobra.

munk
 
Uh oh, sounds like the makings of another "slow heavy bullet vs. fast light bullet" debate <grin>. There might be a middle road, ask Pappy how his two new WW IIs chop. They looked to me like they could get the job done.

Sarge
 
But one of Pappy's WWll's is 18" and weighs 30oz. That's not the middle road. That's the truck lane.

BTW, On bullets, I generally like slow and heavy, but like fast too. There are lots of ways to get the job done. The shooter is tool number one. I'd think with the 25", you'd have limits to when and where you could swing effectively because it needs more room. The AK's probably just chops merrily along in tight spaces.

munk
 
I'm a fan of heavy bullets myself Munk, especially the ones from the nose gun of an A-10 Thunderbolt, a.k.a. "Wart Hog"

Sarge





fighters_a10_0014.jpg
;) ;)
 
Sounds like "research" to me. :rolleyes: ;) :D

Footnote: Hey, when did the three new emoticons arrive? :grumpy: :footinmou :yawn:
 
never understood why the Warthog was so effective... shouldn't some high tech toy be able to shoot it down? As non military, I'm always interested when dinosaur technology hardware is still the best in certain situations. I know the warthog has advanced electronics, but it is still a gunship, right? Tank killer?

I kinda like the idea the gatling gun has been improved but not replaced as well. What is that? the mini gun? The 20? chain gun? Too many for me to figure out.

munk
 
Originally posted by munk
never understood why the Warthog was so effective... shouldn't some high tech toy be able to shoot it down? As non military, I'm always interested when dinosaur technology hardware is still the best in certain situations. I know the warthog has advanced electronics, but it is still a gunship, right? Tank killer?

I kinda like the idea the gatling gun has been improved but not replaced as well. What is that? the mini gun? The 20? chain gun? Too many for me to figure out.

munk

Hehehe! The A-10 happens to be my fave aircraft...

The A-10 is a dedicated Close Air Support (CAS) Aircraft. It's effectiveness was proven most recently in the Middle East, scoring over 75% of the 4000+ tank kills made in the Gulf War. What makes it so? Well, I'd say it's a number of factors;

Survivability. The A-10 has got to be *THE* toughest aircraft in the air, much like a flying Ang Khola! :D

Numerous redundancies allow it to stay airborne even with $hit shot out of it. Both engines are widely spaced to prevent damage from one engine spreading to the other. Engines are also mounted high up on the fuselage, protecting them from groundfire. There aren't any long, vulnerable fuel lines running all over the aircraft (the main problem with any other conventional aircraft), as the fuel tanks are situated as close as possible to the engines. These fuel tanks are self sealed and honeycomb in structure, so are nearly impossible to ignite. The cockpit is sealed in a "bathtub" of titanium-alloy armoured plates, between 1-1.5" thick. It has been jokingly said that the only danger was if a bird burst through the canopy and struck the pilot! The designers actually tested the survivability of the A-10 by firing at it with several 37mm and 23mm cannons (typical Soviet Aircraft guns) and an assortment of smallarms and they it *STILL* was flyable! Again, in the Gulf War, an A-10 returned from a sortie with more than half of one wing blown off, one engine and one tail fin!

In terms of Tank Killing, the A-10 happens to be one of the only aircraft dedicated to wiping out ground targets, which it does superbly. It has a maximum load of 11 pylon hardpoints, the largest number available to an aircraft of it's size, though only 6-9 hardpoints are usually used. Typical warload is around 15 000lbs, usually comprising the tank-killing AGM-65 Maverick. Now to the real juicy bit: the General Electric 30mm Gau 8/A gatling gun. Interestingly, the A-10 was designed *AROUND* this massive cannon. It is *THE* largest and most powerful gun *EVER* flown, the only dedicated tank-killing gun developed for an aircraft. It has 7 barrels and spits out milk bottle-sized Armour-Piercing Incindary shells weighing around 15oz(425g) with a depleted uranium core, at a rate of 70/second, with a muzzle velocity of 3225-3500ft/sec(985m/s). No Earthly tank armour can withsatand that! The A-10 carries 1174 rounds for this massive tankbuster and the whole cannon, along with ammo drum, measures longer than a Cadillac!

Oh and the other gatling guns you mentioned are vastly inferior! :) The standard gatling gun used by almost every US Fighter to date (the AV-8B Harrier II and the F-5 Tiger being the only exceptions) is the 20mm, 6-barrel GE M61A1, which fires 3.5oz(100g) shells at a rate of 100/sec, muzzle velocity of 3400ft/sec(1036m/s). Miniguns are just that. Mini versions of the M61A1, firing the standard 7.62mm NATO round at a rate of between 2000-4000/min and a muzzle velocity of 2850ft/sec(869m/s). They're the ones you see on the helicopters in the movie Blackhawk Down.

The "Chaingun" is the single-barrel 30mm Hughes M230, so named 'cos the belt feed resembles a bicycle/motorbike chain. I don't have the exact figures, but it has a projectile weight considerably greater than 5.3oz(150g), firing rate slightly higher than 10/sec, with a muzzle velocity under 3600ft/sec(1100m/s)...

Phew! Does that answer your question? ;)
 
Wow! Wow!

Munk's question's for the military: If the AR16 A2 is not as reliable in sand why didn't the military have a back up with the AR18? Why have a squad gun shoot the same round as the soldiers carry? I'm guessing the Warthog will run without it's electronics? on manual?
Systems need manual overide. I'm a little leery of the electronic suit soldiers of the future.


and for american truck builders...why not design a truck with old style military features, such as bolt on body components, fenders, hoods, etc.?

A khukuri is never obsolete.

munk
 
Hibuke, what was the mini gun used by the Terminator (Arnold) in T2? It was also used in Predator. That was a sweet gun! Who Made it? Specs?:)
 
Originally posted by munk


and for american truck builders...why not design a truck with old style military features, such as bolt on body components, fenders, hoods, etc.?

A khukuri is never obsolete.

munk

Planned obsolescence is a shame IMO.
I find it hard to get the small parts that are "oh so important" for my '59 Cadillac w/o a small mortgage involved. 400.00 for a replacement used automatic trunk closer? Cripes!
Why can't everybody be like Uncle Bill and sell a quality time proven product that does the job it's designed to do?
Corporate greed. It takes an awful lot of us to get that big mansion on the hill paid for.
It seems that even housing is made to last for a limited time frame. I see subdivisions that are @ 10 yrs (+-) that seem to be falling apart. But the mortgages are 20 yrs longer. Anyone else see a pattern?
Sad.
 
Originally posted by SkagSig40
Hibuke, what was the mini gun used by the Terminator (Arnold) in T2? It was also used in Predator. That was a sweet gun! Who Made it? Specs?:)

Hehehe! *ANOTHER* of my pet topics! :D:D:D:D:D

The minigun Ah-nuld used would most likely be a custon-rigged General Electric M134. Take note, that *ANY* minigun is *NOT* meant for use like that. The recoil would throw you off your feet and rip your arms out of it's sockets!

I already stated the specs, but here they are again:

"...firing the standard 7.62mm NATO round at a rate of between 2000-4000/min and a muzzle velocity of 2850ft/sec(869m/s). They're the ones you see on the helicopters in the movie Blackhawk Down."

Weight of the entire gun is 67lbs(30.4kg), though I have no idea whether that means loaded, or empty.

I'm quite sure the minigun used in the movie Predator was the smaller, scaled down 5.56mm version. No specs on that, as it's quite a rare prototype...

Anything else? ;)
 
Originally posted by Ferrous Wheel
Good question munk. Unle, I'll take two!

Keith

HI Warthogs? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I'm buying *ALL* of them, cost be damned!

Uncle, would they be covered by HI's no bull$hit warranty? :D:D:D
 
So in real life are there a few hand held miniguns like the one in Predator (5.56mm) that were used in combat?

I always wanted to have one to go plikin' in the back yard...do you know where any are for sale???!!!:D
 
Originally posted by SkagSig40
So in real life are there a few hand held miniguns like the one in Predator (5.56mm) that were used in combat?

I always wanted to have one to go plikin' in the back yard...do you know where any are for sale???!!!:D

Like I said, they tried it. The main reason it's never going to be a viable weapons system is due to 3 main factors;

1) Recoil. The amount of recoil in a 5.56mm NATO round is very managable, but considering the fact that the average rate of fire is around 2000+ rounds/min, which works out to 33.33(and so on) rounds per second. The amount of "felt" recoil would be incredible, as you'd be getting socked by the recoil of 33+ rounds every second! Accuracy would be totally nonexistant, as the muzzle climb would be totally unmanagable. Also, that kind of recoil is enough to rip your arms out of their sockets!

2) Weight. With a rate of fire exceeding 2000 rounds/min, you'd go through a box of 1000 rounds in less than 30 seconds. Do you have any idea how much a box of 1000 5.56mm NATO rounds would weigh, along with links? A hell of alot.

3) Power. The gatling gun, the first practical automatic weapon, was designed by Richard J. Gatling in the 1800s. A hand-crank was used to turn the multiple barrels, allowing for quite a high rate of fire (at that time), as the faster you could turn the crank, the faster it could fire. Modern gatling weapons replace the hand-powered crank with Allison Electric Motors to achieve their phenomenal rate of fire. Such motors require a large, constant power source. In an aircraft or even a helicopter, that's not a problem. I'm not sure what would be heavier, the ammo load or the massive battery needed to power the Allison Motor!

However, you should track down a copy of 'Soldier' starring Kurt Russell. Great action flick, from the same universe as Blade Runner. Anyhoo, Kurt procures a minigun rig from one of the baddies. Great scenes. In the behind the scenes show they, had some scenes where Kurt was really enjoying letting rip with the minigun. They had to do the take of one scene a few times, where Kurt rises out of the water and lets the baddies have it! A couple of times the recoil threw Kurt off his feet into the hip-deep water!
 
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