3V vs S35VN characteristics?

[cziv]

To John / CTS Re the CRK Sebenza S35VN edge issue.

It would be surprising if getting your blade Rockwell tested voided CRK warranty, that is provided it was done in a suitable location so as not to interfere with operation or act as a stress raiser. Maybe somewhere on the tang area might be suitable. The result could be very interesting as a starting point to help understand the problem with your CPM S35VN.

My experience with hardness testing on the Rockwell scale is that it’s not expensive. I’d be willing to make a financial contribution to that end if you decide to proceed. Send me a PM if it’s a go.

Chris Reeve tested the hardness of one of my S35VN blades at his shop (long story exactly like CTS's). I was a little ticked off when I got it back, he didn't take your suggestion and test a spot on the tang but left a tiny divot in front of the thumbstud. Cost me a good penny in price reduction for an otherwise minty Sebenza when I sold it.

CRK did make me acutely aware that they did this for "NO Shipping Charge!"

Shakes head and wonders how people can treat customers with a problem so poorly?? :grumpy:

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Do not go stealing my sig or anything...

Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

No seriously, it's very true.

 

[neuron]

Chris Reeve tested the hardness of one of my S35VN blades at his shop (long story exactly like CTS's). I was a little ticked off when I got it back, he didn't take your suggestion and test a spot on the tang but left a tiny divot in front of the thumbstud. Cost me a good penny in price reduction for an otherwise minty Sebenza when I sold it.

CRK did make me acutely aware that they did this for "NO Shipping Charge!"

Shakes head and wonders how people can treat customers with a problem so poorly?? :grumpy:

This, in addition to the fact that they run their steels soft (even S30V, to say nothing of the S35VN issues covered extensively here) is why I sold the handful of CRKs I had and have no plans to buy any more. Their mantra seems to be that if there's a problem with the knife (lockup, steel, etc.), it must be the customer's fault rather than any sort of issue with their knife.

For all the talk about Strider's "bad" customer service -- because they don't have anyone operating the phones and instead basically just operate under the principle of "send it in and we'll take a look at it and fix it" -- I'd vastly prefer to deal with them because I know the steel/HT on their knives will perform and that they'll fix any issue with a smile on their face rather than a scowl. And of course there are plenty of other companies (Kershaw/ZT and Darrel Ralph HTM are the two that have really stood out in my experience) who are both easy to reach via phone and offer great, friendly customer/warranty service.

 

[cziv]

This, in addition to the fact that they run their steels soft (even S30V, to say nothing of the S35VN issues covered extensively here) is why I sold the handful of CRKs I had and have no plans to buy any more. Their mantra seems to be that if there's a problem with the knife (lockup, steel, etc.), it must be the customer's fault rather than any sort of issue with their knife.

For all the talk about Strider's "bad" customer service -- because they don't have anyone operating the phones and instead basically just operate under the principle of "send it in and we'll take a look at it and fix it" -- I'd vastly prefer to deal with them because I know the steel/HT on their knives will perform and that they'll fix any issue with a smile on their face rather than a scowl. And of course there are plenty of other companies (Kershaw/ZT and Darrel Ralph HTM are the two that have really stood out in my experience) who are both easy to reach via phone and offer great, friendly customer/warranty service.

Thanks Neuron for that ^^^! You don't dare to post a problem about a CRK offering w/o a couple of things happening.

First, you post so the blood's in the water and then, like watching one of those shark feeding frenzy shows on Discovery you get a bump here and a bump there and then wham you're torn to pieces by the fans.

Second, if you're lucky you get a personal phone call as a bonus and get an earfull from the boss! Yay! I'll buy another one and see if I have better luck since this issue (what's being discussed now) is poppycock and yadaya *&^% plz call me before posting that kind of stuff.

It's time for the gloves to come off - I got a beat down publicly and privately for my issue with a crappy CRK S35VN blade and I'll never do business with these folks again. I wish them success through looking in the mirror and paying attention to the boards then ACTING ON IT to resolve the problem. Heck that's good business.

I ran 5 e-commerce sites at one time and if someone called with a messed up item, they didn't get chewed out - me or my people I worked with, bent over backwards, with me sometimes losing hundreds of dollars to replace it (on my dime) and overnight the new product, cuz bad publicity just ain't worth it!

When you get to the top in your field, you have to work even harder to stay there, because there's a dozen others nipping at your heels to take over the top slots. </end>

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Thanks Neuron for that ^^^! You don't dare to post a problem about a CRK offering w/o a couple of things happening.

First, you post so the blood's in the water and then, like watching one of those shark feeding frenzy shows on Discovery you get a bump here and a bump there and then wham you're torn to pieces by the fans.

Second, if you're lucky you get a personal phone call as a bonus and get an earfull from the boss! Yay! I'll buy another one and see if I have better luck since this issue (what's being discussed now) is poppycock and yadaya *&^% plz call me before posting that kind of stuff.

It's time for the gloves to come off - I got a beat down publicly and privately for my issue with a crappy CRK S35VN blade and I'll never do business with these folks again. I wish them success through looking in the mirror and paying attention to the boards then ACTING ON IT to resolve the problem. Heck that's good business.

I ran 5 e-commerce sites at one time and if someone called with a messed up item, they didn't get chewed out - me or my people I worked with, bent over backwards, with me sometimes losing hundreds of dollars to replace it (on my dime) and overnight the new product, cuz bad publicity just ain't worth it!

When you get to the top in your field, you have to work even harder to stay there, because there's a dozen others nipping at your heels to take over the top slots. </end>

I can tell you this, my one experience with CRK (on the phone) is enough to leave me NEVER wanting to deal with them for a warranty issue. I'd just rather sell the knife and buy a new one. Seriously, it turned me away that much.

I still love the knives, but Chris's "it had to be the customer's fault because my knives are ALWAYS perfect" attitude is just disgusting. The people who say Chris is polite and friendly have quite obviously never dealt with him. I've spoken with him in real life, and on the phone. He is not what I would call a friendly guy, although he can make a hell of a knife.

 

[kreole]

Their mantra seems to be that if there's a problem with the knife (lockup, steel, etc.), it must be the customer's fault rather than any sort of issue with their knife.

I've only dealt with them once, spoke to CR directly, and that's exactly what happened with me.

I bought a brand new Seb that was literally impossible to open one handed straight out of the box, even very hard to do it with two (and I tried taking it apart, cleaning it, etc.). It was my first brand new one, so I didn't know if it was normal or not. It started to get better, but pretty soon I noticed the lock bar face started to become dented, and after having it about three weeks I posted a picture of it on the CRK forum asking if it was normal. Of course right away the people there assumed I was trolling CRK and blamed me, but there was some good help (e.g., from STR), and someone suggested contacting CRK, which I did. I spoke to him directly and right away, which seemed amazing, but he said there was no way it wasn't because I opened it ~20,000 times, explaining that is the only way the lock bar would dent like it was. To rephrase, he said in three weeks I had opened it 20,000 times, and it must be my fault, although I had owned another Seb for 6 months before that (that I bought used) with no problems and no dent. He had no explanation why it was so hard out of the box couldn't connect it to me opening it, but it must be because I had opened it 20,000 times. (In their defense they said they'd still look at it and fix it if necessary.)

I have bought CRKs since then but buy them under the assumption they have no warranty (same with Spydercos for that matter).

Somewhat back to the thread topic, I wouldn't expect CRK to replace your blade if it's in their specified RC range. As said, it's always the customer's fault.

 

[mongomondo]

I can tell you this, my one experience with CRK (on the phone) is enough to leave me NEVER wanting to deal with them for a warranty issue. I'd just rather sell the knife and buy a new one. Seriously, it turned me away that much.

I still love the knives, but Chris's "it had to be the customer's fault because my knives are ALWAYS perfect" attitude is just disgusting. The people who say Chris is polite and friendly have quite obviously never dealt with him. I've spoken with him in real life, and on the phone. He is not what I would call a friendly guy, although he can make a hell of a knife.

He was friendly with me. Bought a new Sebenza and the lockbar went all the way over and felt sloppy. Sent it in and he called me and apologized saying that unfortunately one slipped through their QA and that he was going to make it right. He was humble and friendly in my experience. I've seen plenty of other people with the similar sentiments that he was nice, not all of us are liars.

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

He was friendly with me. Bought a new Sebenza and the lockbar went all the way over and felt sloppy. Sent it in and he called me and apologized saying that unfortunately one slipped through their QA and that he was going to make it right. He was humble and friendly in my experience. I've seen plenty of other people with the similar sentiments that he was nice, not all of us are liars.

I was painting with a broad brush, which of course is not always going to be 100% correct. I shoud refrain from doing that.

With that said, I here an awful lot of stories similar to mine, and not a lot of stories that go the opposite way. I am educated on CS, and I know that a person is WAY more likely to spread info about a bad CS experience than a good one, but still there seems to be a lot of that stuff going around.

I too buy CRK knives with the pretense that it has no warranty. I will just sell it and buy a different one. Someone else who chooses to buy the knife can deal with them.

ETA: I feel like I should add that I still love the knives. Hell I have four of them, and one of the Large Sebs in S35VN is in my pocket right now.

 

[Reeek]

I have three S35VN knives counting the 0550 (Native 5 and Zaan too) that is due Saturday but after reading some of these posts from people I think know more than I do, I'm rethinking S35VN for the time being.

I confess that I don't use my EDC's hard enough for it to really matter much but for principle, it matters to me quite a bit. We'll just sit back and watch and avoid S35VN in the meantime and moving forward

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

I have three S35VN knives counting the 0550 (Native 5 and Zaan too) that is due Saturday but after reading some of these posts from people I think know more than I do, I'm rethinking S35VN for the time being.

I confess that I don't use my EDC's hard enough for it to really matter much but for principle, it matters to me quite a bit. We'll just sit back and watch and avoid S35VN in the meantime and moving forward

Hey Reeek,

Thomas is sending me one of those 0550s to test out. That should give you a fair idea of what to expect from that knife. I have a feeling that if it doesn't perform well, then Kershaw will let you switch it out for one of the newer ones that they are treating harder (61-62). Of course, this is just conjecture on my part but I'm quite sure they'd make you happy somehow.

I have a feeling that their S35Vn is going to do just fine though.

 

[Reeek]

Thanks and I hope so

Hey Reeek,

Thomas is sending me one of those 0550s to test out. That should give you a fair idea of what to expect from that knife. I have a feeling that if it doesn't perform well, then Kershaw will let you switch it out for one of the newer ones that they are treating harder (61-62). Of course, this is just conjecture on my part but I'm quite sure they'd make you happy somehow.

I have a feeling that their S35Vn is going to do just fine though.

 

[cziv]

I got to wondering about my XM in this steel. They're experiencing flattening and rolling of their edges Not Rick he's making 'em right baby!

Here's the XM-24 in S35VN at 61-62 HRC. I cut up an old box last night and 5 ft of clothes line doubled up (w/mud on some of it). Not a ton of stuff but enough to see if anything was going on under magnification.

That blade is really big and possibly 50* from the Ranch, so it isn't a real "slicer" per se, but it powered through that stuff and probably as much as I'd have wanted it to without a smudge on it. :thumbup:

I plan to get outside with it this weekend and get into some wood and other stuff too. Excuse my poor photos.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co.]

I know Ban Tang has been using alot of S35VN lately in everything from kitchen knives to EDC's. He probably has a good bit of knowledge about its performance. Someone should see if he could give us some info on what hardness he is running his S35VN at.

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

What a beauty, and awesome results. Shows what just a point or two difference in hardness can do. Sorry that I have not replied to you yet Chuck.

I got to wondering about my XM in this steel. They're experiencing flattening and rolling of their edges Not Rick he's making 'em right baby!

Here's the XM-24 in S35VN at 61-62 HRC. I cut up an old box last night and 5 ft of clothes line doubled up (w/mud on some of it). Not a ton of stuff but enough to see if anything was going on under magnification.

That blade is really big and possibly 50* from the Ranch, so it isn't a real "slicer" per se, but it powered through that stuff and probably as much as I'd have wanted it to without a smudge on it. :thumbup:

I plan to get outside with it this weekend and get into some wood and other stuff too. Excuse my poor photos.

 

[cziv]

What a beauty, and awesome results. Shows what just a point or two difference in hardness can do. Sorry that I have not replied to you yet Chuck.

Thanks and don't worry about it John. I watched the video last night about your personal info and quite frankly I don't know how you're able to accomplish all the things that you do. Talk about busy! I liked that video, not many people are able to be that candid and unassuming. Keep up the good work man. I can't wait to see how Kershaw's version turns out!

 

[Ban]

I know Ban Tang has been using alot of S35VN lately in everything from kitchen knives to EDC's. He probably has a good bit of knowledge about its performance. Someone should see if he could give us some info on what hardness he is running his S35VN at.

I happen to like S35vn quite a bit and have used it on a bunch of smaller knives as well as kitchen knives. I like it right around 61rc or so. It is plenty wear resistant for me at that hardness.

 

[cziv]

I happen to like S35vn quite a bit and have used it on a bunch of smaller knives as well as kitchen knives. I like it right around 61rc or so. It is plenty wear resistant for me at that hardness.

Thanks for posting that Ban. I think you and Rick have the heat treatment right which brings it to what it was advertised to be "slightly" better than S30V which I happen to love. :thumbup:

Do you find that the advertised "easier to work with" and for the user "easier to sharpen" bear out with your experience in using S35VN at the higher HRC thusfar?

 

[masterj]

So guys just to clarify. Kershaw has treated their new 0550 s35 at a 61-62HRC? which according to testing done by members here, eliminated most of the said problems?

 

[Thomas W]

So guys just to clarify. Kershaw has treated their new 0550 s35 at a 61-62HRC? which according to testing done by members here, eliminated most of the said problems?

I'm not really seeing "problems". I see a member that didn't like the result of 2 samples of S35VN. I see other members including a knifemaker, say 35VN performs admirably.

Additionally I'm not seeing the "hype" a few are griping about. If anything they themselves are the hype pushers with the supposed issues with 35VN.

We're continuing to monitor 35VN and it's performance. Like with any steel there will be mixed results based on a variety of factors, HT being one of them.

As to the hardness we're running on the 0550's, the first batch's will run out at 58-60 Rc. We'll have to see about future batch's.

 

[Ban]

Thanks for posting that Ban. I think you and Rick have the heat treatment right which brings it to what it was advertised to be "slightly" better than S30V which I happen to love. :thumbup:

Do you find that the advertised "easier to work with" and for the user "easier to sharpen" bear out with your experience in using S35VN at the higher HRC thusfar?

It is in my experience not much different than s30v in terms of sharpening and workability. I find it a bit more wear resistant than cpm-154 which I also happen to like quite a bit.

S35vn is about as wear resistant as I need for my personal use. There are a few other high quality stainless steels out there that are arguably better in terms of performance. But I find s35vn to strike a pretty decent balance in terms of price, workability, and performance for a stainless steel.