420HC stainless vs 440

I treat my own metal and use 440c exclusively. I draw the temper three times at 500 degrees F for 1 hour each time. The edge is a little hard to obtain the first go, but after that I don`t have any trouble.
 
I was looking at buying a small hunting knife kit in 420hc with cryo from texas knife making supplies. It is a for a person who whole heartily believes that a knife from the dollar store will cut anything a custom will so I doubt he will be overly picky about edge retention. He also likes to use V shaped carbide sharpeners when he needs a fine edge. Will the cryo make any difference in toughness ?
 
Jeff Clark said:
I developed a lifelong prejudice against the 440 series steels back in the 1960's. They are very heavy in chrome and to me take second rate edges. They are my least favorite. I even like them less than ATS134/154CM which I also dislike for the same reasons.
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Having had some of the same problems with 440-series knives that you had, I subsequently bought some Cold Steel 440A knives that were wickedly, viciously sharp. Not only did they hold their edges well, they easily resharpened. They were the only knives that my friends inadvertantly cut themselves with, though not seriously (think paper cuts). AUS8 also performed remarkably well, but I've had some problems with some 440C.

I've also found the ATS-34 in my CRKT S-2 very easy to sharpen and maintain.

I think heat treat has a lot to do with how well some of these steels perform. My Cold Steel knives are all easily sharpened, especially the Voyager line. Two swipes every few days keeps my 6-inch Voyager extremely sharp. It's an AUS8 blade and I can't think of better steel for this particular knife, though I have no doubt that VG-1 may be slightly better.

I trust CS's heat treat just as I trust Buck's heat treat. I've had mixed results with CRKT knives and particularly dislike their chisel grind knives. The steel seems a bit soft for my taste, but I still like their M21-04s, which perform well.
 
bluntweapon said:
...for a person who whole heartily believes that a knife from the dollar store will cut anything a custom will....[/quote
Oh my heck! Yes, I can get my early-day dollar store knives sharp, but I have to sharpen them in the dark because light quickly dulls them!
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I would like to add, on my Buck Nobelman (sp?) the 440a seems to be as good as it (440a) can get. This is a thin, full ground blade like a TNT. (I get .018 behind the edge) It does not burr badly, meaning the burr does not flop from side to side and hard to get rid of. It seems to to run at a high RC hardness. Im guessing 58 but it sharpens like its harder than that. On the other end of the scale, I have a Joe Pardue Utilitac in 440a and it must be the worst 440a I ever tried to work with. I can't get rid of the burr with 3 micro bevels:confused:. I love that knife design and want to carry it. but.... I don't want to rule out bad heat treat, because that could be a valid reason for poor performance. I would also say that i have not had any up-scale knives in 440a, i.e., Paul City knife, etc. to compare. If 440a gets better than my Buck, I have no problems with the steel.
 
The old Bucks in 440C were a b*tch to sharpen. I wore more than one out trying to put an edge on with the old carborundum hones (this was pre-diamond hones). 420HC is easier to sharpen, and in CATRA tests outperforms 440C, I believe because the large carbides in 440C tend to tear out. Both are highly stain resistant, but I'd give the edge (sorry:o) to 420HC in toughness.
 
For me bucks 420hc is the best stainless Steel available for edc. Unlike 1095 which develops patina that hides wear, stainless Steel just gets all scratched up and looks like crap.
If I'm gonna settle for a stainless Steel it better share at least one feature with 1095, and bucks 420hc shares the ease of sharpening.
What good is a knife that ( like all knives do ) gets dull and is completely taken out of action until you have time to sharpen it. With an easy sharpen Steel like 420hc I can easily sharpen it up real quick ( 2min tops ) and get right back to the task at hand.

That's fine if you want the your knife to hold an edge for an extremely long amount of time, but your kidding yourself if you claim its easy to sharpen. 440c is easy enough to sharpen that I don't hate it, but 420hc is still easier to sharpen and holds its edge adequately.
 
I found this thread from a Google search (no surprise right). I was curious because I have recently started buying Buck knives again. Buck's S30V, S35VN, and the new S45VN are great steels with the BOS heat treat. Harder than a preacher's pecker but once sharp they hold a fine edge for an appreciable amount of time. Any who, the reason I bring it up is I was one of those that liked the 440C that Buck use to use. In fact I only have one Buck knife that is made with 420HC (119) and I really don't like it. I remember the 440C Bucks. They took some work to sharpen well but once sharp it stayed that way for a while. Touch the edge up every so often and it wasn't hard to bring back a hair popping edge. I would like Buck to go back to 440C so much I asked why not one day while I was on the phone with customer service. While production concerns and customer sharpening are true, the biggest reason is 440C got to be difficult to buy in quantities that Buck wanted for a price they could sell it at. I flat told the guy I was talking to that I didn't care for 420HC and would rather have the 440C back. Essentially he agreed but most likely will never happen. However their special runs of the more popular "super" steels make great knives. I carry a Buck of the month flipper with S35VN as an EDC and really like it. I also have the same knife with S30V and 110 with S45VN. the 110 with S45VN is dang fine knife. That steel takes a very fine edge and holds it well. My opinion is Buck still makes great knives just steer clear of the 420HC.
 
Buck did a lot of research on this subject around 20 years ago, using CATRA measuring to see how different steels held up. Its 420HC with the new (then) Edge2x did pretty well against 440C and ATS 34. Geometry plays a large role in cutting effectiveness. Buck's 440C was a real chore to sharpen -- I didn't have diamond hones back then and wore out my first 112 Ranger over-sharpening on carborundum stores. I much prefer Buck's 420HC to the old 440C.
 
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