• The rules for The Exchange can be found here. Please read and follow them. Stop using Paypal Friends & Family and follow our best practices to prevent getting ripped off or having a bad deal.

5160 John Deere control shaft steel,,, I can get it..

Sam Thanks for the order..should ship tomorrow.


Nowicki said:
Do you think this new batch will act like the last stuff? Are you
going to keep tract of who got which just in case they react diferent?
I'm guessing JD has quality controll on that kind of thing but should we stay on top of it too?
I'll keep mine as JDM5160-batch-1. Haven't forged the second blade yet but so far I'm happy with the first. I was going to do the 2nd one today, with some modifications but spent last night in the ER with mom. We thought it was a heart attack. Turned out to be a toxic reaction to a build up of one of the heart meds she was on They are keeping her for a day or two the reregulate. Some sleep and some yard work and if there is time left I'm going to try the second.

Larry
Larry I'm hoping it will all be the same where they are close to each other
in ship time and manufacturing....
but for batch sakes and test purposes

I think I called the first batch of 1.207 dia JDM5160-4/28/05
this last batch of 1.144 dia would be JDM5160-5/22/05
 
I've been asked if I have more ,, in a word .. yes..
I'll be getting it as long as you guys want it..for those that are not posting here thanks for the suport.. :) I have most the bugs worked out of the order process.. :)
 
Hello Dan:
Last night we finished the first part of testing two blades made from the steel you sent us. We started forging the first blade just as we got the steel from you. The second blade was frorged from a companion bar from the same package. We Soaked the second bar for 2 hours in my Paragon at a temperature just above critical and let it cool slowly to rooom temp.

Both bars then received a full normalizing cycle being heated in the forge then allowed to cool to room temp.

We carefully forged blades from these bars, keeping our forging temp low, the forging temp range was from 1625, down until the steel quit moving. about 950 degrees.

Both blades were subjected to three 35 second quenches, after the front of the blade was forged, from above critical in room temp Texaco Type A quenching fluid. Then the tangs were forged,

Both blades were provided two flash normalizing cycles and one full normalizing cycle after forging. Then placed in the Mankel ceramic forge at about 1,000 f. and allowed to cool slowly to room temp overnight

Both blades were then provided 24 hour cycles in the paragon, Heated to
950, held at that temp for two hours then allowed to cool to rooom temp in the Paragon, in the household freezer overnight and back for the final 950 f. soak.

Both blades where ground, then hardened three times in Texaco Type A at 165 f., then kept in the oil until at room temp than back in the freezer until the next day. these steps were done in three 24 hour cycles,

Tempering was accomplished at 350 degrees, again three cycles in the Paragon, then to the freezer in 24 hour cycles.

We then sharpened the blades and did the edge flex test.

Blade 1 No soak
19 edge flexes before any chips.
550 cuts and still going on hemp rope
1 90 degree flex, then 7 complete 180 degree flexes before the edge cracked.
it broke on the eighth 180 degree flex. Very stong, required an extension on the tang to bend.

Blade 2 with soak
19 edge flexes before edge chipped.
550 cuts on hemp rope, was getting dull.
1 90 degree flex, then 17 complete 180 degree flexes then the cutting edge cracked. This blade was not as strong as blade 1. We were barely able to flex it with out the use of a cheater pipe.

Considering the results of these first test blades I would say your 5160 is every bit as good as the steel from John Deer load control shafts. When carefully forged and heat treated it will provide knives that can definately hold and edge, are easy to sharpen and can be depended on by those who
need a good knife.

Thanks for the opportunity Dan!

Ed Fowler
Bill Burke
Butch Deveraux
Jeff Davidson
Darren Cutsforth
 
Blade 1 No soak
19 edge flexes before any chips.
550 cuts and still going on hemp rope
1 90 degree flex, then 7 complete 180 degree flexes before the edge cracked.
it broke on the eighth 180 degree flex. Very stong, required an extension on the tang to bend.

Thanks Ed
I'm Happy :)
result..
this steel will take the place of the used JD shafts when needed..
JD seams to have kept their mix steady

looks like the results of the no soak is the way to go so far, better edge retention and the edge same
flexes but much stronger,,
what do you believe is causing that soaking problem, it did make the steel softer for sure..
carbon Loss??

I wonder if the soaked blade was tempered at 325 if it would have kept up with the non soaked blade.
 
Hello Dan: We are working without a laboratory right now and have no difenitive answer for you right now. I believe more experimentation may show us something (?)

I do not believe there was any carbon loss at the temps we were working at.

I forgot to add we found no faults in the steel, it was clean and we had good times working it.

Take Care
 
Ed Fowler said:
Hello Dan: We are working without a laboratory right now and have no difenitive answer for you right now. I believe more experimentation may show us something (?)

I do not believe there was any carbon loss at the temps we were working at.

I forgot to add we found no faults in the steel, it was clean and we had good times working it.

Take Care

thanks ED
I added some of this to the test page.http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348016&page=1&pp=20
. it's all good news for sure..
 
OK Guys.
Guess I missed a little on Ed's way of forging/heat treating. I have done 2 blades so far.
!st the way I have always done 5160. Not worrying about heat and got a fair amount of scale in the rough forge. Forged to about 95%.
Normalized
Ground to 220 grit .
Heated to non magnetic and edge quenched in Texaco type A
Drawn at 350 for 2 hours.

2nd.. sort of Ed's way:
Paid atten to temp this time. Kept at lower temps and soaked 1 hour
Cooled to room temp in forge over night.
preheat to red orange and cooled to room temp
Forged at the low temps, red /orange leaving a little thicker than I normally do, maybe 80%
3 flash quenches during forging
Normalized
Ground to 220 and left for a couple days.
Final heat treat....Preheat and soak for 20 min. Cool to room temp.
Heat to non magnetic. and edge quench in Tex A leaving in quench till room temp....3 times.
I think here is one of my differences with Ed...I didn't wait 24 hours between edge quenches.

I put handles on them and started testing,
Edge flex, Haven't done this before so I'm not sure I'm doing it right.
Both blades 20 times with no cracking.
Regrind and started cutting.
Didn't have a lot of hemp rope. Both blades 100+ cuts before I ran out.
Both blades chopped 2x4
I had some bamboo I need to cut down sooo...
hundreds of cuts, the thicker blade seemed to go through easier but I think it was because it has a little more mass.
I haven't done the 90/180 flexes yet and not sure I have the heart to ....but.. Both blades are still going strong so I will keep cutting stuff for a while. The blade on the right was Ed's (sort of) way.

I'll pay more attention on the next one to following Ed's way.


Larry
 

Attachments

  • JDM5160TestBladesWithHandlesResized.jpg
    JDM5160TestBladesWithHandlesResized.jpg
    77.2 KB · Views: 34
Ed Fowler offer and what the offer is for the JDM5160....details to be worked out
and see this on the first post..

Hello Dan:
I have been thinking about working down some of your JDM5160, using all we have learned about low temp forging and the following thermal cycles prior to grinding and heat treat. It would have to sell for about $50 per linear inch to make it work.

We have achieved some great knives following practices used on our 52100 on your steel.
I believe that if the stock removal guys would grind some knives out of it and apply the proper heat treat they could achieve some knives that would out perform most of the other knives out there.
What do you think?
Sincerely
Ed Fowler

Hello Dan:
Sorry to take so long to get back to you, been pretty hectic this afternoon.
Here is the way it would work:
We would forge your steel down at low temp, 1650 absolute top Temp.
Then we would provide the triple bladesmith anneal at 950 and send the steel back to them.
The steel would be a little thicker or wider than they wanted, but as uniform as we can get it with the hammer, but they could drill it, cut it with a saw or surface grind it if they wished. Then go ahead and finish the blade as they wished.
When finished they could use the triple quench and temper.
The cost would be $50 per linear inch, considering how we are working it this would be a bargain.
You can post it where ever you wish.
Take Care Friend
Ed

Hello again Dan:
The steel would be forged down to what ever size they wanted, I would suggest they order it a little oversize to allow for grinding it level.
Also it will be forged only on three sides, there will be no hammer hits on the future spine of the blade. This is to take full advantage of the potential grain refinement gained from forging. The billet will be labeled as to which is the proposed cutting edge.
Take Care Friend
Ed
 
Back
Top