9mm suggestions

I own five High Powers (three Browning, two FEG), a CZ75B, an HS2000 (like Nasty's), an S&W 940 Revolver, a Ruger SP101, all in 9x19. I once owned a Glock 17 and 19, but have since sold them.

I'm a huge fan of the High Power, only because I grew up with single-action autos like the BHP and the 1911. Still my faves because of "inertia."

That said, nearly every one of the BHPs has needed some degree of polishing and work on the lockwork to smooth out the trigger action, just as Fulloflead mentioned above. If you are experienced and capable, they can be a fun project gun but I don't recommend it if you aren't handy with tools and familiar with semi auto full disassembly.

For out-of-the-box shootability in a value-priced SA/DA semi auto, the CZ75B is a tremendous amount of gun for the money. Every bit the fit and finish equivalent of a SIG, but a couple-few Benjamins (~= to two khuks!) less on a new gun to new gun basis. The 75B has a safety, the 75BD is a decocker. $375 to $400 plus.

For a striker-fired semi-auto, the Springfield XD (formerly HS2000) is the value leader, IMO and experience. What it has going for it is an extremely ergonomic grip as compared to the "furring strip" grip of the Glock. The XD grip is similar in feel to that of the BHP and CZ75, and because it was more comfortable I found the HS/XD easier to shoot and thus more accurate than my G17 and G19, so I sold them. The XD9 comes in 4" and 5" bbl lengths, but the price new is in the mid-$400s plus.

And at that price level, another alternative is a used police trade SIG 226 or its smaller sibling, the 228. These can be had in various degrees of finish wear for around $375 to $485 depending on source. SIGs are outstanding pistols, have excellent triggers, and reputations to match. I would not discount a used police trade SIG. In fact, I just purchased a traded P220 SIG in 45 ACP. Carried a lot, shot little as the saying goes. There's hardly any wear internally or to the finish on the OD of the barrel. Whomever carried this thing fired something else for quals.

Sorry for the windy, but that's me and you asked. ;)

Best of luck, and enjoy!

Noah
 
cliff355 said:
If you are planning to reload for an auto pistol my prediction is you will be moved to profanity by the 9mm.
Click to expand...

LOL! :D
Ain't that the truth!
I do it. But I started and gave up a few times over the course of a few years before I finally managed to rustle up the patience to get it right.
 
What worked for me was selecting ONLY one or two bullets with shape profiles that closely match original FMJ, and settling on ONE JHP bullet that fit the same shape profile envelope at a fixed OAL. Bullet profile and cartridge OAL are two "non-negotiables" for hassle-free reloading of the 9x19.

Reloading the 30 Carbine Blackhawk has its own set of issues. The case length is critical for proper headspacing so figure on trimming cases to within the tolerance. Second, figure on taper crimping to allow for proper seating of the case mouth on the headspacing recess in each chamber. You'll have to stick with M1 Carbine-capable loads (14 gr IMR 4227 and the like) if you plan on using the same load in both revo and carbine.

Don't let 9x19 reloading scare you. "Many have gone before" and folks on reloading message boards have the 411 to get you up and running smoothly.

That said, I find it hard to reload 9x19 with Fiocchi, S&B, and Olympic 9x19 so inexpensive at aound $7-$8 a box of 50. Shucks, a box of 100 decent Hornady or Sierra bullets alone will run about $15 more or less, then you have powder and primers costs PLUS THE TIME. Might not be worth it.

Noah
 
Yes shoot military ammo in the 9mm. The endorsement for the 75 is so resounding I'm gonna start looking at them.

I have owned an M1 carbine since I was 13 or 14 (I'm 45 now) and I have dies and tons of brass. I also like the 7+ inch barrel on the Blackhawk.
 
Noah- Good to see you over here.

Personally, I went with the H&K USP for a 9mm bullet launcher.

I enjoy my Glock .40. CFS has police trade ins G17's at 349 with night sights.

I like other CZ's, but don't know the 75B.

I won't endorse anything. Not much experience with 9's.

Brian
 
I own 2 9s. I have a Browning Mark II and have put about 5,000 rounds through it. It is a great gun, and reliable and accurate with most ammo. It is fine for anything that you want a 9 for.

I also have a Ruger P89, the gun with the aluminum frame. It is fun to shoot, and just about as accurate as the Browning - and much cheaper. If you want a double action 9, you could do much worse and spend more. It is much easier to shoot well than a Beretta or a Taurus. I can't shoot either of these worth a .....

Either gun (the Browning or Ruger) will last forever, and will be as accurate as any 9 you are likely to find. I recommend either - choose on the basis of cost or desired features....quality is great on both.

I could never shoot a Beretta - the grip and trigger are just wrong for my hands.... and I have average sized hands. I can't see the logic of a 9 as big as the Beretta - even the full-sized Ruger looks small by comparison.
I don't care for the idea of a plastic frame, but if you get one - it is your money and your call. I have shot the Glock and it shoots fine. It feels and shoots like a Browning without a safety. It is about as accurate as the Browning.
I know all about the trigger safety, but the Glock is pure weapon, and I would not want one for myself. I'd rather have a Browning!
The Ruger is accurate and fun to shoot. It is much less expensive than a Browning, and perfectly reliable. I find it just as accurate - and I have owned 2 of them....both were great guns. Perceived recoil is very light on the Ruger. It feels like shooting a 22 with some blast.

If you have small hands with short fingers - the Browning is great!
 
Noah Zark said:
That said, I find it hard to reload 9x19 with Fiocchi, S&B, and Olympic 9x19 so inexpensive at aound $7-$8 a box of 50. Shucks, a box of 100 decent Hornady or Sierra bullets alone will run about $15 more or less, then you have powder and primers costs PLUS THE TIME. Might not be worth it.

Noah
Click to expand...

That's true and I once thought that too...

BUT there's another way to look at it:
For the same price as Fiocchi, S&B, etc. you can handload QUALITY ammo like Speer Gold Dot that you wouldn't otherwise buy. You wanna practise with what you carry? THAT'S how you do it.

(If a person was so inclined he could stockpile quality SD ammo in this fashion. Just use a dab of primer seal. ;) )

By the way, clever user name you got there.
 
cliff355 said:
You wouldn't be with the Marines would you? I heard those folks showed up at Camp Perry and demonstrated to the World how to shoot 2" groups at 50 yards with 9mm Berettas. Some day I will take another crack at it if my trail runs far enough.
Click to expand...

No, but I believe that gun would do it. Darnit. I might have to sell some knives and buy a Beretta Elite again now. :grumpy:
 
Like Spectre said...the 210 was a bit of a tongue in cheek suggestion. Basically one of my own dream guns that I doubt I'll ever afford. What I woud suggest seriously though is one of the used Sig 226s that are going for $360ish outta Shotgun news.

The Ruger actually wasn't a bad suggestion. My buddy got one about twelve years ago and I talked all sortsa crap about it. 'lo and behold, we took it out and started shooting it, and found it was a very accurate gun, and THE MOST reliable autoloader I've seen, This includes umpteen custom 1911's, Glocks, Sigs,Hi-Powers, etc. I TRIED to make it fail, I dropped it in mud, sand, froze it in snow, shot thousands of the smokiest crappiest reloads that could be found through it, used crappy USA mags, and it has to this day never failed.

All things told though, I myself remain intrigued by the CZ-75. Sounds like a real winner.

Has anyone played with one of those Charles Daly Hi-Powers that are going for around $300ish? I'm curious about those.
 
Runs With Scissors said:
. . . Has anyone played with one of those Charles Daly Hi-Powers that are going for around $300ish? I'm curious about those.
Click to expand...

They are renamed FEG PJK-9HPs, imported by KBI Imports of Harrisburg, PA, owners of the CD name. Other gun-related board posts have them made in the Phillipines with the CD 1911s, but that is NOT true. The CD HP is made in Hungary at the FEG factory.

I own two FEG PJK-9HPs and find them to be very serviceable. On one, the trigger pin liked to walk out until I rebent the trigger return spring to make contact with the retainer groove in the trigger pin. End of issue. One of the FEGs has the BEST trigger pull of any of the HPs that I have, including a 60s Belgian, an 80s pre-Portugal MkIII, and a Portuguese-assembled MkIII.

For $300, I would not be afraid of a CD High Power, even though it might need a bit of polishing or tweaking. Good value, IMO, based on experience with FEGs.

Noah
 
Hmmm....that's interesting...It's almost a given that any Hi-Power is gonna need new sights, mag disconnected, and the trigger polished anyways...may very well be worth a looksee. Overall, how would you say they stack up in comparison to a Browning? (Sorry to keep asking questions here, but my interest is piqued)
 
I have an FEG PJK and was thinking about getting it tweaked. What reliability improvements would you folks recommend? The trigger seems really gritty after the first stage. Is this a gunsmith job, or one that can be done at home by an amateur who has a lot of patience?
 
Bri:

I've found that "grittiness" in the trigger pull is most often caused by burrs on the various lockwork components. One set of components in paricular is the magazine safety plunger, the face of its "head", it's recess in the rear of the trigger, and the area on the top front of the magazine that the safety "head" contacts. If these are deburred and polished, the majority of the grittiness goes away. That said, removal of the mag safety is another option, but some have concerns that such a measure would increase liability risk. IMO, there are other pistols that do not have mag safeties, and for a time during WWII the BHP itself was made without one. All but one of my HPs is without the mag safety plunger.

Other parts like the lifter that fits into the recess in the right rear top of the trigger, the transfer bar, the slot in the slide in which the transfer bar resides, the sear, the mainspring rod/hammer strut, etc., all improve with deburring. That can be accomplished with mounted rubber abrasive tips in a dremel, or 400/600/1200 silicon carbide paper or alumina polishing stones of different shapes.

Also, deburring the edges of the extractor and it's slot in the slide do wonders to ensure reliable extraction. Burrs on the extractor or its slot interfere with ease of rotation of the extractor and can cause FTEs and jams. Some merely replace FEG extractors with BHP extractors, but that does not address the burrs in the slide slot.

I would for now stay away from the sear and hammer surfaces unless you have expreience in polishing and adjusting the contact points and angles of those critical components. I've found that my FEGs didn't need any work on those surfaces once I got all the other parts deburred and properly lubricated with a thin film of oil or a small dab of grease here and there.

HTH,

Noah
 
Runs With Scissors said:
Hmmm....that's interesting...It's almost a given that any Hi-Power is gonna need new sights, mag disconnected, and the trigger polished anyways...may very well be worth a looksee. Overall, how would you say they stack up in comparison to a Browning? (Sorry to keep asking questions here, but my interest is piqued)
Click to expand...

New MkIII BHPs can be had around $500, usually more, not often less. Used ones sometimes for $450 or so, at least in these parts. YMMV. That makes the $300 +/- FEGs a good economical option if you are handy and understand your way around firearm innards. Usually all that's needed is a teardown and deburring/polishing of all edges, contact points and surfaces with any of the lockwork components as described in the response post to Bri in Chi above.

I have picked up maybe five FEG model PJK-9HPs over the years and ended up keeping two of them, trading or selling the others for something different. NOTE: The PJK-9HP is the ONLY FEG that is a true BHP clone, in which parts will generally swap with only minor fitting if necessary. I'd avoid any of the FEGs with a decocker/safety lever in the left rear of the slide, merely because they are a whole different animal and NOT a BHP clone despite the physical similarity.

I don't mean to be running off at the keyboard about guns in a knife forum, sorry folks! :eek:

Noah
 
One of the best ways to smooth the action of a Browning is to shoot it - a lot!
Part of the grit in the trigger mechanism may be the mag safety.
Personally, I don't mind a heavy trigger in a single action 9.
I don't have time to reload much now, and don't get enough shooting in to justify reloading, but -
I always had pretty good success with the Remington 115 gr. hollow point, Winchester cases, and a good dose of Herco or W231. The Remington bullet always shot well and was reliable in any 9 that I tried it in.
 
I know I said it before Noah...but welcome. I agree with the assessments you have offered thus far. I was SAMTU and CATM on the AF Team for years and have done extensive smithing as well. I would only add the use of Militec-1
 
To lube the internals?

I did a trigger job on a Kel-Tec back 7 years or so ago. Not too hard dissasembly, a little polishing...took me three days to get it back together. I was putting all the pieces in the right spots, but just needed to wind the trigger return spring around once. :footinmou :D

Anyway, I've used Militec on feed ramps after polishing, then a gentle bake to attempt to bond to the metal, and smooth feeding.

John
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top