A message from Lynn

countless users over 25 years
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That ain't helping the situation.

Words like "bank-vault feel" and others saying "this is the most solid knife I've ever handled", the results should mesh with these statements. They in fact do not. A feeling is a powerful emotion, in the case of the Sebenza, its powerful deception. "Beware a knife that feels solid", said seconds before the 2nd straight from the box Sebenza went down.

The CS tests are gimmicky, true, but as I said they prove what a blade can or cannot take. They are as much as test of CS as they are their competitors. And some of them do really well, and their valiant performances are enough to sell you on them.

I'm going to retract my gimmicky comment now actually, publicly testing your product for all to see should never be considered such.



I'm pretty anti-hype. These testing videos, that are gaining in popularity, do not count as hype because they prove themselves time and again, while sometimes proving true the strength and hype of some other well-touted locks.

My last line there is a very telling one:

Jonslaught said:
At $410 price point, it should have at least outperformed the $40 knife that started a lawsuit (CRKT M16-14cz54321??).
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We're talking solid titanium. 410 USD dollars. Outperformed (not by much, but still outperformed) by $40 prone-to-exploding-under-duress Zytel. This is where hype shatters. All 25 years of it. A Sebenza owner may never admit it out loud, but it is what they feel.
 
Well, I'll just say two things:
1) Sample size
2) Claims actually made

Small sample makes it impossible to make sweeping across-the-board conclusions.

Actual claims: the Sebenza was never claimed to possess the world's strongest lock. Cold Steel--by virtue of having Demko's design--makes such a claim (well, used to), and they are doing a good job of backing it up.

But to say all hype has exploded based on a small sample size (2 knives), especially when the claim of ultimate strength was never made, seems to be reaching a bit.
 
stabman said:
But to say all hype has exploded based on a small sample size (2 knives), especially when the claim of ultimate strength was never made, seems to be reaching a bit.
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Maybe so, the Sebenza has other virtues: Blade material, centering, origin country, the nice subtle click when you open and close the blade. None of which reflect on its name, which means "Work". A work knife should possess other qualities, like a solid feel that actually translates to reality.

Anyone think the Hinderer Lock Bar Stabilizer would improve the Sebenza? Or are there still those out there who say "you can't improve upon perfection, you can't improve upon the Sebenza".
 
Jonslaught said:
Anyone think the Hinderer stopper thingy would improve the Sebenza? Or are there still those out there who say "you can't improve upon perfection, you can't improve upon the Sebenza"
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The Hinderer thing only really helps against over-extending the lock when unlocking, and they did add it on the Umnumzaan (I guess too many people were over-extending the locks... ).

The neatest thing about knives like the Sebenza in my eyes is the simplicity of build.
I don't have a Sebenza (liked the Umnumzaan better) but the Spydero Farid K2 shares the same sort of minimalist design. Very few parts. :thumbup:

The Tri-Ad lock ain't nothing to sneeze at though; I knew when I loaned my Tuff Lite to a friend for an adventure race (a fixed blade or locking folder was a required piece of safety equipment, and she doesn't own any), she wouldn't have the lock fail on her. :)
It also had the benefit of being inexpensive in case it got lost or bashed...something she was more worried about than me (I have lots more knives anyway :D ).
 
I wish Demko did a close up of the Sebenza to show the damage. I can assume it was an over extension. I have a ZT 0566 (steel frame lock) and the Hinderer stopper does its job. Plus being steel the lock is harder to move. My Kershaw Knockout on the other hand I feel like I could effortlessly push the sub frame lock out. I guess I treat that one as one would a Sebenza, but the price for both of those knives are black and white. I do like the sleekness of the Sebenza, but the rave, fanfare and hype, its like using a firehose to full up a shot glass.


The Tuff-Lite, yeah, at that price point knives can be expendable, better yet to be dependable also. Simplicity, maybe that's what CS was going for with the removal of liners on their G-10. The old Ultralock models, I have the pleasure of owning are far the opposite: Axis lock, g10 scales, steel liners, Frankenstein bolts holding it all together...
 
ursamajor said:
I say keep doing what you are doing, as far as design and tests are concerned.

The complaints that the vocal minority of the knife world makes, are the exact same complaints that the vocal minority of the gun world used to make in the 80's about Glock. Exact same grasping at straws arguments.

"They're ugly"
"They have plastic handles"
"They feel cheap"
"They are not made in America"
"The torture tests are not valid. I use my gun (knife) to shoot (cut) and don't abuse them"
"I prefer premium materials in my grips (handles)"
"The grip angle (handle ergos) suck."
"Gaston Glock (Andrew Demko) is not yet in the Firearms Hall of Fame (Cutlery Hall of Fame)"

Etc etc.

Now everyone wants to make polymer frame striker fire guns, which still fall short of the original in reliability.

And Spyderco was the first of what will soon be everyone, who wants to make the next ridiculously strong lockback.

So here is to the G10 handled Triads...the Glock of the folding knife world.
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This is a good one, hate to see it get buried. It's like 1911(Sebbie) vs Glock(CS). Sure 1911 has been used since well 1911 with great distinction, but if you are to go to war today in any environment, would you use a 1911 or a Glock 21? Again this is still subjective, and Glock does not have 100 years of "sample size", but i hope the answer is clear...

BTW, ultimate Glock meltdown video here, must watch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub4OswUhLwo
 
hkyew said:
This is a good one, hate to see it get buried. It's like 1911(Sebbie) vs Glock(CS). Sure 1911 has been used since well 1911 with great distinction, but if you are to go to war today in any environment, would you use a 1911 or a Glock 21? Again this is still subjective, and Glock does not have 100 years of "sample size", but i hope the answer is clear...
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I'd take a magnum revolver over either of those. ;)
 
hkyew said:
Why people like revolver more than others will always be an unsolved mystery for me. But i do think Rick's revolver from walking dead is damn cool :)
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I just like them better.
Shot with them for longer, and I like how if you get a dud round you can simply squeeze the trigger again.
I know it's not recommended, but if it were an actual danger situation, just pull the trigger again. Quicker than any method one can employ with a semi-auto. :)
 
stabman said:
I just like them better.
Shot with them for longer, and I like how if you get a dud round you can simply squeeze the trigger again.
I know it's not recommended, but if it were an actual danger situation, just pull the trigger again. Quicker than any method one can employ with a semi-auto. :)
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Yup. I actually like revolvers and lever action carbines and rifles much more than the many modern designs that have displaced them.
 
I'm a revolver guy, too. I have owned and continue to own both, but revolvers are my preference. If the American Suppressor Assoc. and Rep. Matt Salmon are ever actually successful in getting suppressors removed from the NFA, that may change. :D It'd be great to go out shooting without ear plugs, and you can't suppress a revolver (except perhaps a Nagant). :thumbup:

Wait...what was this thread even about? :p
 
hkyew said:
Why people like revolver more than others will always be an unsolved mystery for me. But i do think Rick's revolver from walking dead is damn cool :)
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Colt Python, my favorite. Though the one I like is the first one I saw, the 4'' barrel.

43099-600x325.jpg


Rick has the 6.

Too bad its not in production. Though you could probably get one for 4 Sebanzas (new currency)
 
I got a chance to fondle a Python at a local gun shop that was made back in the '60s. OH. MY. GAWD! The bluing looked so deep and lustrous that you could dive into it, and the smoothness of the action was just insane. :thumbup::cool:
 
whp said:
Six and out.:) I might need more.;)
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Speed-loaders. ;)
Right now my competition belt holds 4 speed-loaders.

A bunch of years back, a friend of mine who became a cop came down with his RCMP buddy, and we all went down to the range.
I went through their police course of fire with them; I had a Colt New Service that's at least 80 years old, they had their service weapons.
I kept up fine, and did a bit better. :thumbup:

It's all about what you're good with, and personal preference.
Kind of like with knives. :)
 
hkyew said:
but if you are to go to war today in any environment, would you use a 1911 or a Glock 21? Again this is still subjective, and Glock does not have 100 years of "sample size", but i hope the answer is clear...
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There are quite a few law enforcement and military units that choose to carry modern 1911 pistols over Glocks, including the LAPD SWAT, FBI Hostage Rescue Team, Delta Force, and Force Recon.
 
DShiflet said:
There are quite a few law enforcement and military units that choose to carry modern 1911 pistols over Glocks, including the LAPD SWAT, FBI Hostage Rescue Team, Delta Force, and Force Recon.
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True. But many of those guys, when given the choice (as many of them are able to choose their sidearm once they've been selected), choose to carry the 1911 for the same reason that many people choose to carry a Sebenza: It looks cool.

The 1911 is a status symbol because their permission to carry it when others are not authorized to do so represents the eliteness of their units. But in practical terms, it has nothing over the Glock, and in many ways is an inferior weapon. Compared to a Glock 21, it costs two to three times more, holds almost half as many rounds, had to be redesigned to accept weapon lights, and has been proven to require regular care and even fine-tuning by a gunsmith to keep it functioning reliably.

ursamajor's comparison to the Sebenza is entirely apt. People are free to carry whatever they like, and more power to them if they take pride in ownership of their Chris Reeve knives. There's nothing wrong with that. I have plenty of knives that I paid way too much for, that I bought simply because they appealed to me, and that I enjoy showing off to fellow knife guys. But, as in the case of the 1911 fans arguing about Glock's torture testing, it's nothing more than emotional rationalization when you try to justify your stance with intangibles in the face of facts based on performance tests.

-Steve
 
The Whip said:
True. But many of those guys, when given the choice (as many of them are able to choose their sidearm once they've been selected), choose to carry the 1911 for the same reason that many people choose to carry a Sebenza: It looks cool.

The 1911 is a status symbol because their permission to carry it when others are not authorized to do so represents the eliteness of their units. But in practical terms, it has nothing over the Glock, and in many ways is an inferior weapon. Compared to a Glock 21, it costs two to three times more, holds almost half as many rounds, had to be redesigned to accept weapon lights, and has been proven to require regular care and even fine-tuning by a gunsmith to keep it functioning reliably.

ursamajor's comparison to the Sebenza is entirely apt. People are free to carry whatever they like, and more power to them if they take pride in ownership of their Chris Reeve knives. There's nothing wrong with that. I have plenty of knives that I paid way too much for, that I bought simply because they appealed to me, and that I enjoy showing off to fellow knife guys. But, as in the case of the 1911 fans arguing about Glock's torture testing, it's nothing more than emotional rationalization when you try to justify your stance with intangibles in the face of facts based on performance tests.

-Steve
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That's...actually not true. Those guys are extreme professionals...they do NOT choose gear for the way it "looks". Aside from the fact that looks are subjective(in terms of looks I'd much prefer a Walther P99 over a 1911), there's also the fact that those units could have chosen from dozens of guns that others aren't authorized to carry. Yet they chose the 1911 style gun. Just like Delta Force chose the HK 416 for their assault rifle...even though it looks like the same old M4 that basically everyone carries. If they wanted a cool LOOKING weapon they had plenty of other options to go with.

As an aside, I personally don't care for 1911 style guns. My own pistol of choice is the SIG P229, and I'd rather carry a Glock(which I also dislike) than a 1911 as well. But there are plenty who DO favor the 1911 as a weapon, and it's not cause of the looks.
 
ursamajor said:
I say keep doing what you are doing, as far as design and tests are concerned.

The complaints that the vocal minority of the knife world makes, are the exact same complaints that the vocal minority of the gun world used to make in the 80's about Glock. Exact same grasping at straws arguments.

"They're ugly"
"They have plastic handles"
"They feel cheap"
"They are not made in America"
"The torture tests are not valid. I use my gun (knife) to shoot (cut) and don't abuse them"
"I prefer premium materials in my grips (handles)"
"The grip angle (handle ergos) suck."
"Gaston Glock (Andrew Demko) is not yet in the Firearms Hall of Fame (Cutlery Hall of Fame)"

Etc etc.

Now everyone wants to make polymer frame striker fire guns, which still fall short of the original in reliability.

And Spyderco was the first of what will soon be everyone, who wants to make the next ridiculously strong lockback.

So here is to the G10 handled Triads...the Glock of the folding knife world.
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Its not G10 but CS has a picture of one of their knives and a Glock:
1913876_10153341810393730_7877404009171832557_n.jpg
 
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