A Question to the UK folk.....

[NDH]

Just stumbled across the Viper Dan and that looks really interesting!

 

[Billy The Hungry]

I would submit that our UK friends that frequent this forum are among the least likely to support the anti-knife, anti-self defense laws in their country. Picking on them about it even unintentionally seems like adding insult to injury. I am not sure that Britain is not to far down that path to turn it around. I would, however encourage our U.S. Friends to think about freedoms they value and vote accordingly. It could indeed happen here.

What this man said.

They're our brother's and sister's too. They just sound differently from us, is all.

Just like us, they don't make the stupid laws. Unfortunately, they are subjected to them!

 

[Dr Heelhook]

Another thing that sucks about knife laws is that regardless of how stupid you think they are, it can always get worse.

It used to be legal to carry a Swiss Army Knife in Denmark as a pocket knife, to use whenever you need it. People were ok with that. I think they assumed that common sense would dictate exactly what one means by a "Swiss Army Knife" (short slip joint blade, NOT a tactical folder), but for legal reasons they still decided to define specifically what kind of a knife you can actually carry, so there are no misunderstandings. So they settle on a knife that's maximum 2.75 inches in blade length and has a non locking blade that needs to be opened with two hands.

Then of course a really smart (s-m-r-t) knife maker and designer decides to design and promote a knife that is built to function as much as a tactical folder as possible (big handle, aggressive hawkbill blade and a rock hard slip joint spring that locks the blade in place as tightly as possible), while still meeting the current definitions of the law, as if that law is set in stone and never a subject to change.

People start carrying this thing around and lo and behold, all of a sudden the law is changed and nowadays you can't EDC any sort of knife at all in Denmark.

 

[colubrid]

2 questions for you UK and London natives..

1) what is the penalty for carrying a locking blade? Will the police take your knife and issue a ticket or arrest you in handcuffs? What exactly will happen and how serious is it to be caught with one on you?

2) if you have a pocket knife clip showing? Can a poilice officer stop and search?


Would this Rick Hinderer XM-18 slippy an issue in Great Britain? Is it too agressive in appearance that some policeman could say this is a premeditiated weapon?

 

[Alberta Ed]

Another thing that sucks about knife laws is that regardless of how stupid you think they are, it can always get worse.

It used to be legal to carry a Swiss Army Knife in Denmark as a pocket knife, to use whenever you need it. People were ok with that. I think they assumed that common sense would dictate exactly what one means by a "Swiss Army Knife" (short slip joint blade, NOT a tactical folder), but for legal reasons they still decided to define specifically what kind of a knife you can actually carry, so there are no misunderstandings. So they settle on a knife that's maximum 2.75 inches in blade length and has a non locking blade that needs to be opened with two hands.

Then of course a really smart (s-m-r-t) knife maker and designer decides to design and promote a knife that is built to function as much as a tactical folder as possible (big handle, aggressive hawkbill blade and a rock hard slip joint spring that locks the blade in place as tightly as possible), while still meeting the current definitions of the law, as if that law is set in stone and never a subject to change.

People start carrying this thing around and lo and behold, all of a sudden the law is changed and nowadays you can't EDC any sort of knife at all in Denmark.

Must have been a lot of stabbings in Denmark.

 

[Ruari]

2 questions for you UK and London natives..

1) what is the penalty for carrying a locking blade? Will the police take your knife and issue a ticket or arrest you in handcuffs? What exactly will happen and how serious is it to be caught with one on you?

2) if you have a pocket knife clip showing? Can a poilice officer stop and search?


Would this Rick Hinderer XM-18 slippy an issue in Great Britain? Is it too agressive in appearance that some policeman could say this is a premeditiated weapon?

So, here from the gov.uk website is the guidance up front. It can be very subjective, depending on numerous factors (criminal history, situation leading to search etc etc).

On your knife, I would say it would again be initially down to the subjective nature of the police officer doing the search. Some people, including police officers, react as if they have seen Ktulu when a knife is seen.
I imagine if you had a brightly coloured handle that would already take the 'tactical weapon of mass destruction' factor away to a large extent.
It'sreally frustrating and you might only be able to get things resolved after being arrested - and you probably won't get your knife back. I'm not speaking from experience, but my cynical side says you may get away with it, but your knife will probably be seized and destroyed.

 

[colubrid]

So, here from the gov.uk website is the guidance up front. It can be very subjective, depending on numerous factors (criminal history, situation leading to search etc etc).

On your knife, I would say it would again be initially down to the subjective nature of the police officer doing the search. Some people, including police officers, react as if they have seen Ktulu when a knife is seen.
I imagine if you had a brightly coloured handle that would already take the 'tactical weapon of mass destruction' factor away to a large extent.
It'sreally frustrating and you might only be able to get things resolved after being arrested - and you probably won't get your knife back. I'm not speaking from experience, but my cynical side says you may get away with it, but your knife will probably be seized and destroyed.

So even though this is a folding knife and 3" long it will still get taken and destroyed? The thumbdisk is removable on this knife and can be carried without making it a two handed opening knife. So are thumbdisks (one handed opening knives) also illegal ?

Isn't the law in clear on those two points London on knives?
1) Folding non-locking knife
2) 3" or under blade

 

[Ruari]

So even though this is a folding knife and 3" long it will still get taken and destroyed? The thumbdisk is removable on this knife and can be carried without making it a two handed opening knife. So are thumbdisks (one handed opening knives) also illegal ?

Isn't the law in clear on those two points London on knives?
1) Folding non-locking knife
2) 3" or under blade

It won't definitely get destroyed, sorry if that's how it came across. But I doubt they will casually measure the blade to make sure it's 3" or under and let you on your way. Certainly having something like a SAK or Leatherman detracts from the immediately 'offensive' perception. People are more accepting of a SAK or utility tool and its not regarded as a threat.
One handed opening is not illegal, but assisted is dicy and automatic is illegal.
I think in the UK a lot will ride on the circumstances, ones demeanour and subsequent attitude with the police if you were stopped and searched.
It's kind of like being stopped for a broken tail light, arguing with the cop and suddenly your car is being inspected for every single fault imaginable.
I carry a UKPK which has a pocket clip. But I always slup it inside my pocket, completely inside, if I know I am going into town, a petrol station etc. Just remove any sign I even have 'something' there. I also am mentally prepared to be as compliant and effusively apologetic to a cop if I ever get stopped. Additionally, I am prepared to surrender the knife (it is also an anniversary present) if it means 'nothing further may be said, you've done messed up, we're taking this, walk away'.

 

[cistercian]

I feel so bad for you guys in the UK. American in NC here. For work I carried a Lil Native comp lock
in S30V that was perfect for office use. On the weekends I carry whatever I want...A Yojumbo Spyderco
with a 4 inch blade and a comp lock is the current fave but I also like my ZT 0452CF. Here in north carolina
automatics, gravity knives, and OTF knives are legal too and I sometimes carry them as well. I like giant slicey
blades for camping as they are great for food prep. I mostly carry 4 inch+ knives.

Of course, I have some gents knives in the 3 to nearly 4 inch range which I love, Like my ZT0707 or my Spyderco
Kapara. Both are slicey and fantastic. I am so sorry you cannot carry them. Best wishes from across the pond and
I hope thing get better for you. It just seems so unfair to me. You need a bigger blade for big onions and tomatoes!

 

[Ruari]

Thanks, I sometimes think that at least it's uniform for us - you guys have different laws from state to state.
But yeah, I hope in the next 5 years (any longer and I'll be too old to enjoy it) things change for the better. Politicians need to realise that criminals don't care about laws, and that laws only hurt (well, restrict) the law obiding citizens.
Enjoy your freedoms guys, I know I would!

 

[colubrid]

It won't definitely get destroyed, sorry if that's how it came across. But I doubt they will casually measure the blade to make sure it's 3" or under and let you on your way. Certainly having something like a SAK or Leatherman detracts from the immediately 'offensive' perception. People are more accepting of a SAK or utility tool and its not regarded as a threat.
One handed opening is not illegal, but assisted is dicy and automatic is illegal.
I think in the UK a lot will ride on the circumstances, ones demeanour and subsequent attitude with the police if you were stopped and searched.
It's kind of like being stopped for a broken tail light, arguing with the cop and suddenly your car is being inspected for every single fault imaginable.
I carry a UKPK which has a pocket clip. But I always slup it inside my pocket, completely inside, if I know I am going into town, a petrol station etc. Just remove any sign I even have 'something' there. I also am mentally prepared to be as compliant and effusively apologetic to a cop if I ever get stopped. Additionally, I am prepared to surrender the knife (it is also an anniversary present) if it means 'nothing further may be said, you've done messed up, we're taking this, walk away'.

What part of the UK do you reside?
As an American I am very confused by the police where you live. Either something is legal or it is illegal.

I don't understand what sucking up or being effusively aplogetic to an officer will do if no law was broken and it was just a random stop for a pocket clip showing? Here in the USA police have to follow the law just like any citizen. So if a knife is legal then what good does it do to sweet talk the policeman?



Now if I was stopped or questioned for something i should not have been doing. That is different.

 

[NDH]

As an American I am very confused by the police where you live. Either something is legal or it is illegal.

Aha, that sounds a little like all the stories we hear of the US police does it not?

I completely agree with you, the law should paint a better black and white picture.

The reason I started this thread, was in part, to see how much the “scaremongering” of the UK laws actually applied to the real world.

If people are really interested in knives enough to sign up and contribute on this forum, I would find it incredibly unlikely that they are silly enough to draw attention to themselves around police.

Like I said previously, I’ve never been stopped, never been searched, and never been close.

If a cop did stop me, I can only assume it would be a mistaken identity, or some other bizarre coincidence, and given my 100% clean record, I’d be very surprised if they gave a shit about a UK friendly knife.

The whole 3” thing is a funny one, because so many UK friendly knives try and max that out, and like someone else said, I can’t see a pissed off cop getting his ruled out to measure the edge. I also don’t think arguing that it’s UK friendly and explaining the law to them is going to help in that situation.

That being said, on principle (knowing I’m in the right), I may just do that if it ever came up!

The rest comes down to common sense.

Playing around with your knife on the tube, in a big city, in an obvious public place..... Anywhere where someone can feel uneasy about it..... Just don’t do it.

Simply carrying it in your pocket wherever you go, and using it for the usual tasks throughout a day where people likely don’t even bat an eye...... As you were!

 

[jackknife]

Another thing that sucks about knife laws is that regardless of how stupid you think they are, it can always get worse.

It used to be legal to carry a Swiss Army Knife in Denmark as a pocket knife, to use whenever you need it. People were ok with that. I think they assumed that common sense would dictate exactly what one means by a "Swiss Army Knife" (short slip joint blade, NOT a tactical folder), but for legal reasons they still decided to define specifically what kind of a knife you can actually carry, so there are no misunderstandings. So they settle on a knife that's maximum 2.75 inches in blade length and has a non locking blade that needs to be opened with two hands.

Then of course a really smart (s-m-r-t) knife maker and designer decides to design and promote a knife that is built to function as much as a tactical folder as possible (big handle, aggressive hawkbill blade and a rock hard slip joint spring that locks the blade in place as tightly as possible), while still meeting the current definitions of the law, as if that law is set in stone and never a subject to change.

People start carrying this thing around and lo and behold, all of a sudden the law is changed and nowadays you can't EDC any sort of knife at all in Denmark.

A perfect example of the moronic few, pissing in the soup and ruining it for everyone. Like the zero tolerance bull hockey, instead of the 'system' having to take some responsibility and judging the few and holding them responsible for their own actions, its just easier to pass a blanket law to limit everyone! Except the criminals, of course!

Why the people in the U.K. tolerate this I don't know. I'd think some PM's and MP's need to be voted out of office. Or have a rebellion. We'd be glad to help with advise. Ours worked pretty good in 1776, when they tossed the tea in the harbor and we drank coffee ever after.

 

[afishhunter]

Funnily enough, most of the crimes are committed with cheap $10 kitchen knives and cheap tacticlol knives. What gangsta is going to want to buy and then throw away a Benchmade/Randall/Chris Reeve?

Umm ... What makes you think a "gangsta" is going to actually buy any knife?
S/He is much more likely to steal whatever knife they have, rather than buy it - including the cheap kitchen and taticlol ones.

Serious Question for the UK crowd:
Is an Opinel number 6 and 7 legal if you don't remove the lock ring?
What about the Number 8 and above, that have a blade over 3 inches long? Are they legal with or without the lock ring?

 

[NDH]

Serious Question for the UK crowd:
Is an Opinel number 6 and 7 legal if you don't remove the lock ring?

I think there is a little confusion over “illegal” and “illegal to carry in public without a good reason”

Anything that locks, no matter how big or small is illegal to carry in public without a good reason.

This includes a 1” SAK that locks (or a 1” fixed blade).

However, it’s this “valid reason” that is blurry.

The more I think about it, if you are stopped and searched, it’s likely because you are either incredibly unfortunate at being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or you are doing something wrong.

Either way, any form of knife on you that locks is likely to be confiscated, and depending on your attitude, circumstance for the stop and past criminal record, it’ll either be a “learn the law” speech, or something much worse.

If the knife can freely fold, and the cutting edge is less than 3”, you don’t need a reason to carry it, it’s simply legal.

The minute that knife acts in a threatening way or any other way of bringing attention to it, it becomes illegal and you are going to face some questions.

 

[eveled]

This is why being tactical is bad.

I’ve always tried to look as innocuous as possible. I always look like I could be going fishing, or like a tradesman. Makes it easier to explain having a knife in your possession. In my case a big knife.

That first impression decides how a cop is going to treat you.

This is also why I wouldn’t let my kids go out looking like gang bangers. First impressions are hard to overcome.

I’d think about starting a business that required me to be “on call” and carry tools with me. Then carry a knife that is utilitarian.

At some point you decide that you’ve had enough and you weigh the risks and proceed with caution.

 

[colubrid]

I think there is a little confusion over “illegal” and “illegal to carry in public without a good reason”

Anything that locks, no matter how big or small is illegal to carry in public without a good reason.

This includes a 1” SAK that locks (or a 1” fixed blade).

However, it’s this “valid reason” that is blurry.

The more I think about it, if you are stopped and searched, it’s likely because you are either incredibly unfortunate at being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or you are doing something wrong.

Either way, any form of knife on you that locks is likely to be confiscated, and depending on your attitude, circumstance for the stop and past criminal record, it’ll either be a “learn the law” speech, or something much worse.

If the knife can freely fold, and the cutting edge is less than 3”, you don’t need a reason to carry it, it’s simply legal.

The minute that knife acts in a threatening way or any other way of bringing attention to it, it becomes illegal and you are going to face some questions.

So where I live in the USA is in Georgia. I have taken my 5 year old to mcDonalds play area and cut her hamburger in half with my knife (a 4" locking blade) and no Georgian would ever bat an eye to something like that. No parent or kid would even blink. You can buy locking blades at every gas station, Walmart or hardware store

I am sure it is different in other places in the US . Like New York . But here in georgia where people can carry guns nobody gives a hoot about a knife.

I am supposed to go to London again as soon as this travel ban is over. So that is the reason for my questions. It is just hard for someone like myself who lives in Georgia to know how to act in a place like London. I just can't understand the nonsensical phobia . I have spent time in other countries (long periods in Brazil and Indonesia) and no issues there with knives either. London just trips me out beause to me a knife is so basic in day to day needs. It's crazy how other countries make it a weapon.

 

[Billy The Hungry]

A perfect example of the moronic few, pissing in the soup and ruining it for everyone. Like the zero tolerance bull hockey, instead of the 'system' having to take some responsibility and judging the few and holding them responsible for their own actions, its just easier to pass a blanket law to limit everyone! Except the criminals, of course!

Why the people in the U.K. tolerate this I don't know. I'd think some PM's and MP's need to be voted out of office. Or have a rebellion. We'd be glad to help with advise. Ours worked pretty good in 1776, when they tossed the tea in the harbor and we drank coffee ever after.

I say we help them out. Someone has to supply the munitions.

Or, they can all just migrate to the US. We can always use more good men and women!

 

[Billy The Hungry]

So where I live in the USA is in Georgia.

What part? We're looking to move to Valdosta. Currently in Florida, but grew up in Texas and West Virginia.

 

[Halfneck]

So where I live in the USA is in Georgia. I have taken my 5 year old to mcDonalds play area and cut her hamburger in half with my knife (a 4" locking blade) and no Georgian would ever bat an eye to something like that. No parent or kid would even blink. You can buy locking blades at every gas station, Walmart or hardware store

That's true in your rural communities, not so much for Metro Atlanta area anymore.