A year and four months.

[jackknife]

My guess is that Victorinox cut the 74mm line to push the 58mm line. I even think they'd cut the 84mm line if it weren't for the fact that the small selection of Waiter, Bantam and Recruit are still top sellers so they just can't do it.

My guess is that Victorinox knows very well that city folks will likely do fine with a 58mm SAK. And the adventurous folks doing camping and long trail hiking etc, have more need for a full scout pattern type of knife like the 91mm SAK.

In my opinion it's a sad thing that they cut the 74mm line and decimated the 84mm line, but I think I can sort of understand it. The 65mm line with basically only a single model, is likely kept alive as an gesture and historical nod to Wenger.

I think you just may have hit the nail on the head.

I don't think Victorinox has been in business since 1890 by being dumb and trusting to luck in making decisions. They have great business sense, and a great production capacity. I would not be surprised at all if they did an exhaustive market study, and came up with a streamlined plan for sales in the greatest centers of populations; the cities. In this 21st century, the mass of the human population is not with farmers, trappers, frontiersmen, ranchers, and others in the boonies. It's in Tokyo, London, New York, Paris, Chicago, Frankfurt, St. Louis, Rome, and the like. The teaming masses of people now live in huge urban settings, and those urban settings have limited us of a knife, but have many laws about them. From Amsterdam to Tokyo, there's laws governing what kind of knife can be carried.

I have a moderate size hunch, that the 58mm line was carefully selected for the ubiquitous "world acceptable" pocket knife/mini multitool. And it has been successful. Victorinox is still the worlds biggest knife producer, with world wide distribution than makes others look like small time pikers. I doubt Buck, Benchmade and Spydeco combined, could match the production numbers of SAK's shipped out per year from Switzerland. And a great deal of that production is the humble little 58mm's. I can't begin to make a guess how many classic's, ramblers, mangers, are shipped out across Europe, Scandinavia, North America, South America, Japan, Southeast Asia, and mideast. Sales in just the U.S. is in the millions, as you can't walk through any big box store or sporting goods store here in the U.S. without seeing the classic in many colors having from a peg for the price of a fast food lunch. Heck, they give them away with advertising and company logo's on them. I've got a few with advertising from a finance company, a company selling oil drilling equipment, and a medical equipment company. I understand in some places, you can now carry them again onto an airliner.

In today's world with dense populations, it's a cutthroat market in many things. Look at the car brands that didn't make it this last big meltdown. No more Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, Mercury's, and others. Even huge Toyota cut their line by dropping the Scion line and streamlined production. Knife companies have done the same. They have to appeal to the most broad customer base they can, and that's the non knife nut, or non car nut, or whatever. Like why the humble Toyota Corolla or Kia Forte or Honda Civic sell like hotcakes, but sales of Jaguars, Porsche's and Ferrari's are way way less. Just like the non car nut guy will just buy something reliable to get to and from work, the non knife nut will just by something small enough to be almost unnoticed in a keyring, low cost enough that is an easy buy, but enough to do what needs to be done most the time, like opening mail, plastic packaging, and an occasional piece of twine.

The classic is the penknife for the 21st century.

 

[ShaiHulud]

My guess is that Victorinox cut the 74mm line to push the 58mm line. I even think they'd cut the 84mm line if it weren't for the fact that the small selection of Waiter, Bantam and Recruit are still top sellers so they just can't do it.

My guess is that Victorinox knows very well that city folks will likely do fine with a 58mm SAK. And the adventurous folks doing camping and long trail hiking etc, have more need for a full scout pattern type of knife like the 91mm SAK.

In my opinion it's a sad thing that they cut the 74mm line and decimated the 84mm line, but I think I can sort of understand it. The 65mm line with basically only a single model, is likely kept alive as an gesture and historical nod to Wenger.

It almost seems like they want to iron out their offerings and streamline their products in order to remove redundancies in their models. Several models are too similar, so instead of having both the waiter and the bantam, eliminate the bantam and keep the waiter, as it's essentially a bantam with a wine opener., cadet and pioneer are pretty similar too. But the issue is if they keep cutting products, they won't have too many offerings and will lose customers

 

[jackknife]

It almost seems like they want to iron out their offerings and streamline their products in order to remove redundancies in their models. Several models are too similar, so instead of having both the waiter and the bantam, eliminate the bantam and keep the waiter, as it's essentially a bantam with a wine opener., cadet and pioneer are pretty similar too. But the issue is if they keep cutting products, they won't have too many offerings and will lose customers

I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that Victorinox knows to the fraction of a percent, what's selling good and what's sitting on the shelf for long periods with a sale now and then. A company this big and old has to know what the market is doing, and I suspect that they do a constant poll of the market. No company is going to keep making a particular mode if its only doing mediocre sales, vs a hot selling model. Like the executive vs the classic. The bottom line is profit to go on to the next season, so if a model is only doing a single digit percent of sales, vs a model that is selling twice or even three times the sales, they will drop the single digit sales item.

I can see them dropping the bantam when it only costs say 8% more to produce a recruit, but the recruit nets them a bigger profit in more sales. The profit of the recruit is more and it's a more popular model than the bantam. I rarely see a bantam in the big box stores, but the recruit is a regular on the shelf and goes out the door on a very regular basis.

In today's vicious market, a single digit percent profit can make a difference. It's a cutthroat world out there, and if market share studies show that only single digit percent of customers prefer the bantam, but double digit percent prefer the recruit, then they will dump the bantam. Add into that, they may figure that a percent of the people who prefer the bantam, just may, if the bantam was no longer available, buy the recruit, and the bantam is a dead issue. Gone baby, gone! There was a lot of people who genuinely liked the executive, but not enough sales to justify the cost of keeping up production of them. The tool set of the executive used parts not in common with the other sizes, so the cost in materials and labor was a dead end. The classic, manager, and other 58mm's used some of the same tools, like a lot of the 91mm use common blades and tools. With the difference between a Spartan and a tinker being only one tool, that cuts production cost. Like the difference between a pioneer, farmer, and pioneer X being the addition of one tool. They all use the same basic scales, springs, blade, can opener, screw driver and bottle opener and awl. Just add a scissors and you get another model. Add a saw and yet another model.

ya gotta compete with the rest of the world.

 

[ShaiHulud]

I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that Victorinox knows to the fraction of a percent, what's selling good and what's sitting on the shelf for long periods with a sale now and then. A company this big and old has to know what the market is doing, and I suspect that they do a constant poll of the market. No company is going to keep making a particular mode if its only doing mediocre sales, vs a hot selling model. Like the executive vs the classic. The bottom line is profit to go on to the next season, so if a model is only doing a single digit percent of sales, vs a model that is selling twice or even three times the sales, they will drop the single digit sales item.

I can see them dropping the bantam when it only costs say 8% more to produce a recruit, but the recruit nets them a bigger profit in more sales. The profit of the recruit is more and it's a more popular model than the bantam. I rarely see a bantam in the big box stores, but the recruit is a regular on the shelf and goes out the door on a very regular basis.

In today's vicious market, a single digit percent profit can make a difference. It's a cutthroat world out there, and if market share studies show that only single digit percent of customers prefer the bantam, but double digit percent prefer the recruit, then they will dump the bantam. Add into that, they may figure that a percent of the people who prefer the bantam, just may, if the bantam was no longer available, buy the recruit, and the bantam is a dead issue. Gone baby, gone! There was a lot of people who genuinely liked the executive, but not enough sales to justify the cost of keeping up production of them. The tool set of the executive used parts not in common with the other sizes, so the cost in materials and labor was a dead end. The classic, manager, and other 58mm's used some of the same tools, like a lot of the 91mm use common blades and tools. With the difference between a Spartan and a tinker being only one tool, that cuts production cost. Like the difference between a pioneer, farmer, and pioneer X being the addition of one tool. They all use the same basic scales, springs, blade, can opener, screw driver and bottle opener and awl. Just add a scissors and you get another model. Add a saw and yet another model.

ya gotta compete with the rest of the world.

With 500m a year in net worth and over a century old, victorinox is doing something right

 

[gustophersmob]

From what I have read over the years, Vic has a long term strategy and are not focused on the next quarter's numbers like so many companies. Yes, they do what they need to make a profit, but they also plan for future lean times and try to retain all their employees when things get rough. From what I understand, when they bought Wenger, they kept all personnel employed. My guess is they are looking at models and eliminating slow sellers, but it is probably a much slower process for them than most companies, and is done with that long term horizon in mind. Low time preference, if you will.

 

[Tafkaag]

I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that Victorinox knows to the fraction of a percent, what's selling good and what's sitting on the shelf for long periods with a sale now and then...

If faith in Swiss accountancy is lost, we all know what's next:

 

[CVamberbonehead]

We all know that the Vic classic is only a stepping stone to Jackknifes next knife.

Or maybe just baby fingernail clippers.

 

[ShaiHulud]

We all know that the Vic classic is only a stepping stone to Jackknifes next knife.
View attachment 2535784
Or maybe just baby fingernail clippers.

Oh I don't know, the opinel no.2 is pretty small

 

[birdsbeaks]

In this 21st century, the mass of the human population is not with farmers, trappers, frontiersmen, ranchers, and others in the boonies. It's in Tokyo, London, New York, Paris, Chicago, Frankfurt, St. Louis, Rome, and the like.

You may be correct, however, the days of the big city may be numbered - at least for those who can afford to leave them.

The conditions that led to the development of major cities, for the most part, don't exist today in the same way they did, due primarily to the advancement of technology.

Essentially, we needed to be in close physical proximity to one another in order to access the requirements of daily life - work, communication, procreation, protection, education, etc. The result was overcrowded cesspools filled with people regularly demonstrating antisocial behavior that, I'll concede, have gotten marginally better since the heydays of London, New York, and Paris - at least the sewers are no longer open-air.

The fact that the aristocracy always had access to their secluded country manor houses should be enough to demonstrate that cities were mostly for the poor saps that didn't have many other choices - and, in order to keep full-scale riots from breaking out, people were convinced that eating at a "fancy restaurant" was somehow better then eating out of the back of a chuck wagon or that the latest Broadway show could somehow compare to the vista of a wild mountain range with the setting sun as a backdrop.

Most of the people I know personally who have moved to NYC have told me that they did so because it's a cultural center, usually phrased as "bands play there" or "there are really great restaurants." They also usually look a little hurt when I laugh. This is one of the ways that self-sufficient and highly capable people have been relegated in popular culture to the class of "rednecks and country bumpkins." This is also how the city dwellers were convinced to give up access to the tools (and, more importantly, skills) that were considered absolutely fundamental just a generation or two before.

Now, with remote work, remote school, lightning-fast global communication and shipping networks, dating apps, social media platforms, and on and on and on - living and working in close proximity to each other is less necessary, and for many less desirable. Additionally, the recent pandemic was a catalyst for many to realize that life was still possible without sacrificing 8 or 9 hours of the day to wasting away in an office. Enter the "digital nomads" and proponents of the "van life."

If a person can work remotely, attend school online, have access to the entertainment and food that they want at the push of a button, have a supercomputer in their pocket, and meaningful friendships with people all over the world from the comfort of one's own home - why should they put up with traffic congestion, homelessness, legislative restrictions, crime, protests, office work, high prices, and all the other unpleasantness that comes part and parcel with city life? And what happens, moving forward, when AI and advanced robotics begin taking over more and more jobs and we need to be in close proximity to each other even less than we do today?

Of course there will always be people who enjoy being packed into an apartment building or housing community like sardines, but with each passing year, more and more people I know personally are fleeing the big cities for more quiet and tranquil environs - environs that often require or, at the very least, "allow" the use of a full-fledged knife.

This isn't to say that I think a SAK Classic isn't a great choice - I personally believe they are. It's more to say that I wouldn't count the other patterns out. For instance, a harness jack might no longer be needed to repair a bridle on the trail, but may still be desirable to a hobbyist leather worker running an online business from their home - and while some SAKs include a serviceable awl, it might not be the most effective option available. So while I agree that "the mass of the human population is not with farmers, trappers, frontiersmen, ranchers, and others in the boonies," I'd say that there may very well still be a place in our modern society for the larger and more varied styles.

 

[jackknife]

Soooo, we drove out to Mission Viejo California to visit with the daughter's family and celebrate the granddaughters 15th birthday. We left 6AM on Thursday morning via our Toyota Highlander. Food while on the road was snacks and sandwich makings in a soft sided cooler. All package opening and some slicing of Tillimook mild cheddar cheese and stick of pepperoni was done wit the humble little classic for the most part.

I don't know why, but there seems to be a conspiracy to encase all foods in plastic that is highly resistant to senior citizens fingers. A sharp cutter is needed to make ev en a simple sandwich of cheese and pepperoni on a sourdough roll.

The spousal unit snagged a fingernail while helping load the luggage into there back of the Toyota while departing the Comfort Inn in Tucson Friday morning at dawn, so the scissors on her classic was put into service as was the nail file to smooth things our.

While driving through the mountains between El Centro California and El Cajon California, a slight dash rattle at certain speeds made itself known, and putting a hand on different parts of the dash made it clear that two Phillips screws were a little loose under the plastic of the dash. A minute with the SD tip and there was no more rattle.

W.e did cheat a bit, sort of. The wife had for years carried a red plastic handle Victorinox paring knife with the red plastic blade cover, but last year it was phased out by a Red handle Victorinox folding paring knife. Karen used it to spread some Cream cheese on some saltine crackers, and it really did a better job than the little classic. Sooo, cutting was with the classic, and the cream cheese spread with folding paring knife. I guess that makes it a true Victorinox road trip

 

[Daedric Panther]

Soooo, we drove out to Mission Viejo California to visit with the daughter's family and celebrate the granddaughters 15th birthday.

If you’re still in the mission viejo area be real careful on the roads. It’s raining hard over the weekend and very few out here are familiar with the right way to drive in wet conditions.

 

[jackknife]

If you’re still in the mission viejo area be real careful on the roads. It’s raining hard over the weekend and very few out here are familiar with the right way to drive in wet conditions. View attachment 2539839

Yeah, tell ma about it!

Just got back from a store run to get the ingredients for tonights dinner, where I'm making the world famous 'Carl's Meatloaf' and people were driving weird. You'd think they never saw water falling from the sky before. Well, it is sunny Southern California, so maybe a human sacrifice may be needed to bring back that big bright thing that's usually in the sky!

 

[mnblade]

Yeah, tell ma about it!

Just got back from a store run to get the ingredients for tonights dinner, where I'm making the world famous 'Carl's Meatloaf' and people were driving weird. You'd think they never saw water falling from the sky before. Well, it is sunny Southern California, so maybe a human sacrifice may be needed to bring back that big bright thing that's usually in the sky!

The question now is, is the Classic up to the job of a human sacrifice!? Keep us posted, sir!

-- Mark

 

[Daedric Panther]

Yeah, tell ma about it!

Just got back from a store run to get the ingredients for tonights dinner, where I'm making the world famous 'Carl's Meatloaf' and people were driving weird. You'd think they never saw water falling from the sky before. Well, it is sunny Southern California, so maybe a human sacrifice may be needed to bring back that big bright thing that's usually in the sky!

Yeah the drive home from work today was I was born and raised out here in SoCal, it wasn’t until I moved out of state for a few years that I actually had to learn how to drive in the rain (and out there snow). Now that I’m back in SoCal it’s obvious how few people out here know how to handle wet conditions. Everyone freaks and decides it’s a good time to go 30 over the limit and slam their brakes at the first sign of water on the road.

 

[ShaiHulud]

Yeah the drive home from work today was I was born and raised out here in SoCal, it wasn’t until I moved out of state for a few years that I actually had to learn how to drive in the rain (and out there snow). Now that I’m back in SoCal it’s obvious how few people out here know how to handle wet conditions. Everyone freaks and decides it’s a good time to go 30 over the limit and slam their brakes at the first sign of water on the road.

I live in a rough neighborhood, everyone here seems to be revving up their mustangs and challengers, especially in the rain, as if they are impervious to hydro planing, one of them crashed directly into a car that was two cars behind my wife, a wheel flew off and plastic rained everywhere, then he proceeded to drive off in a frenzy, all while it was raining

 

[jackknife]

Update;

Soooo, we're back from the land of beaches, sunny Southern California. Orange County to be exact and it's been fun. Spent Saturday and Sunday on the road and I love being back home. I love my daughter and her family, but it's nice to stand in my own shower, cook in my own kitchen, and sleep in my own bed. I've become a homebody in my old age, and find comfort in my familiar surroundings.

But on to SAK's. In the time on the road and in Mission Viejo, my classic was used multiple times a day for odd jobs. Cutting was about 50% of it. The SD tip was used on Phillips screws on multiple occasions, for repairs, installation of a new household appliance, and some maintenance on a sticky door lock. I love my son-in-law, and he's a very good husband to Jess, and a great other to Bree, but Harry Homeowner he ain't. Sao every trip I plan on doing "tune-ups" on house stuff, and some outright repair. I have his tool box in the garage, but often it's just a matter of a few screws, some shim martial, tighten things up again.

Cooking I did was with the nice kitchen knives by Victorinox that Jess has, and all the classic did was open the plastic food packaging. The classic knife blade was used a lot when I restrung the metal wind chimes that Jessica has had for like 15 years, and the string was rotting out and the chimes tubes were falling off. A ball of fine nylon string from Hobby Lobby and the classic, and a long piece of coat hanger wire with a hook on the end to grab the loop and pull it through was used. Took a little while, but now the chimes should last another 15 years.

On the drive home over this past weekend, the classic was used for slicing up a large yellow bell pepper and some celery sticks to use on the hummus dip while driving through New Mexico. We'd stocked up with some groceries before leaving Mission Viejo so we wouldn't be left with doing roadside burgers and fries. Trying to eat healthy in our senior years.

It's a funny thing, but each time I downsized in stuff, I felt less compelled to horde, or lust after whatever. Like knives. I downsized from a Buck 301 stockman to a Case peanut, and my knife obsession faded a bit. Then I downsized again to the 58mm SAK, and after a period of acclimation, the knife thing faded more again. Same thing happened with guns and motorcycles. Sometimes a weird thing happens when you go down, you find that on rare occasions, less actually is more. When Karen and I sold off the full size motorcycles, then had a withdrawal, we bought Vespa scooters. We had a BLAST! We ended up having more fun than we had the last few years with the motorcycles. Go figure. And when we downsized our guns, and went back to just what we had when we got married, we had a fun again like we hadn't had in years with the bigger guns. Karen had her S&W .22 revolver and I had the same. We got back to plinking at cans, clay birds laid out on the dirt berm backstop of the pistol range, and spent gobs of ammo on just having fun. Of course this was back pre-Obama days when a 550 round box of Federal .22's was all of 8.99 at Walmart.

The same has happened with the knife thing. I actually don't own many knives anymore, and going to California, I just carry what I always carry now, which is 90% of my knife ownership. A spare SAK and my old Buck Woodsman in the suitcase and we're gone. There's a lightness of being with owning less stuff that is a wonderful feeling.

So, in the end, a road trip from Georgetown Texas, to Mission Viejo California, all I needed was what I always carry; my little keyring SAK. The Buck woodsman was used in my suit case, and kitchen stuff was done with kitchen knives. A novel concept on a knife forum, but there it is.

 

[ShaiHulud]

Update;

Soooo, we're back from the land of beaches, sunny Southern California. Orange County to be exact and it's been fun. Spent Saturday and Sunday on the road and I love being back home. I love my daughter and her family, but it's nice to stand in my own shower, cook in my own kitchen, and sleep in my own bed. I've become a homebody in my old age, and find comfort in my familiar surroundings.

But on to SAK's. In the time on the road and in Mission Viejo, my classic was used multiple times a day for odd jobs. Cutting was about 50% of it. The SD tip was used on Phillips screws on multiple occasions, for repairs, installation of a new household appliance, and some maintenance on a sticky door lock. I love my son-in-law, and he's a very good husband to Jess, and a great other to Bree, but Harry Homeowner he ain't. Sao every trip I plan on doing "tune-ups" on house stuff, and some outright repair. I have his tool box in the garage, but often it's just a matter of a few screws, some shim martial, tighten things up again.

Cooking I did was with the nice kitchen knives by Victorinox that Jess has, and all the classic did was open the plastic food packaging. The classic knife blade was used a lot when I restrung the metal wind chimes that Jessica has had for like 15 years, and the string was rotting out and the chimes tubes were falling off. A ball of fine nylon string from Hobby Lobby and the classic, and a long piece of coat hanger wire with a hook on the end to grab the loop and pull it through was used. Took a little while, but now the chimes should last another 15 years.

On the drive home over this past weekend, the classic was used for slicing up a large yellow bell pepper and some celery sticks to use on the hummus dip while driving through New Mexico. We'd stocked up with some groceries before leaving Mission Viejo so we wouldn't be left with doing roadside burgers and fries. Trying to eat healthy in our senior years.

It's a funny thing, but each time I downsized in stuff, I felt less compelled to horde, or lust after whatever. Like knives. I downsized from a Buck 301 stockman to a Case peanut, and my knife obsession faded a bit. Then I downsized again to the 58mm SAK, and after a period of acclimation, the knife thing faded more again. Same thing happened with guns and motorcycles. Sometimes a weird thing happens when you go down, you find that on rare occasions, less actually is more. When Karen and I sold off the full size motorcycles, then had a withdrawal, we bought Vespa scooters. We had a BLAST! We ended up having more fun than we had the last few years with the motorcycles. Go figure. And when we downsized our guns, and went back to just what we had when we got married, we had a fun again like we hadn't had in years with the bigger guns. Karen had her S&W .22 revolver and I had the same. We got back to plinking at cans, clay birds laid out on the dirt berm backstop of the pistol range, and spent gobs of ammo on just having fun. Of course this was back pre-Obama days when a 550 round box of Federal .22's was all of 8.99 at Walmart.

The same has happened with the knife thing. I actually don't own many knives anymore, and going to California, I just carry what I always carry now, which is 90% of my knife ownership. A spare SAK and my old Buck Woodsman in the suitcase and we're gone. There's a lightness of being with owning less stuff that is a wonderful feeling.

So, in the end, a road trip from Georgetown Texas, to Mission Viejo California, all I needed was what I always carry; my little keyring SAK. The Buck woodsman was used in my suit case, and kitchen stuff was done with kitchen knives. I novel concept on a knife forum, but there it is.

Good story, I try not to think about the thousands I spent on knives, and the scenarios I went through to justify the lot of them. All these years and I still didn't get stranded in the great unknown so all these bushcraft knives only got the use I went out of my way to give them, chopping at wood in my backyard, no real purpose to it, but I had to get them used up so I didn't feel bad about owning knives that primarily seldom left the shelves. Sold and rebought again, a truly lopsided circle if ever there was one. I've been Carrying small slipjoints now, recently bought a vintage 2 blade Camillus on ebay, old carbon steel and rusted, not the best action but it does everything I'll run into needing to do in my life. I'm not a combatant, not a hunter, or a bush man. And it took years of money wasting to realize that

 

[jackknife]

Good story, I try not to think about the thousands I spent on knives, and the scenarios I went through to justify the lot of them. All these years and I still didn't get stranded in the great unknown so all these bushcraft knives only got the use I went out of my way to give them, chopping at wood in my backyard, no real purpose to it, but I had to get them used up so I didn't feel bad about owning knives that primarily seldom left the shelves. Sold and rebought again, a truly lopsided circle if ever there was one. I've been Carrying small slipjoints now, recently bought a vintage 2 blade Camillus on ebay, old carbon steel and rusted, not the best action but it does everything I'll run into needing to do in my life. I'm not a combatant, not a hunter, or a bush man. And it took years of money wasting to realize that

ShaiHulud, you have no idea of how much and how close your feelings have paralleled mine. Sometimes I look back on the hoarding and the buying of totally unneeded knives, guns, and other "stuff" that I never needed and turned out to be insane. Like you, I had the "bushcraft knives long before they were called that, I think it was the survivalist thing back then. I can't believe that once upon a time when I was a young un, that my backpacking knife was a Randall 14. It actually weights more than the handgun I carry these days. And the really crazy part is, I never did anything with it that my Wenger SI or Victorinox pioneer couldn't do. It was backpacking! Like all my shelter and sleeping gear were with me in lightweight materials that were more weatherproof and warmer than anything I cold construct mountain man style.

I think when you're young, you're more prone to believing the crap that the knife/gun/car/motorcycle magazines print. Then when you get "older" you look b ack on it all and regret the insanity. So many times I wish I could go back in time like Marty McFly and find myself, and kick myself right in the A$$ and ask me W.T.F. are you doing, bonehead?????

 

[ShaiHulud]

ShaiHulud, you have no idea of how much and how close your feelings have paralleled mine. Sometimes I look back on the hoarding and the buying of totally unneeded knives, guns, and other "stuff" that I never needed and turned out to be insane. Like you, I had the "bushcraft knives long before they were called that, I think it was the survivalist thing back then. I can't believe that once upon a time when I was a young un, that my backpacking knife was a Randall 14. It actually weights more than the handgun I carry these days. And the really crazy part is, I never did anything with it that my Wenger SI or Victorinox pioneer couldn't do. It was backpacking! Like all my shelter and sleeping gear were with me in lightweight materials that were more weatherproof and warmer than anything I cold construct mountain man style.

I think when you're young, you're more prone to believing the crap that the knife/gun/car/motorcycle magazines print. Then when you get "older" you look b ack on it all and regret the insanity. So many times I wish I could go back in time like Marty McFly and find myself, and kick myself right in the A$$ and ask me W.T.F. are you doing, bonehead?????

Correct on every facet, even looking at the jim bowie knives that littered the wild west, those were huge, even to their standards, top heavy, unwieldy. If it isn't food prep, if it isn't game dressing, if it isn't woodland survival house building (which really, an axe will do most the work) the grand majority of cutting, is on the surface, and a couple layer swiss army knife can do it.
Even in a self defense situation, a swiss classic can do the job. It doesn't need to be a tacticool tacti-ops battle blade

 

[jackknife]

Correct on every facet, even looking at the jim bowie knives that littered the wild west, those were huge, even to their standards, top heavy, unwieldy. If it isn't food prep, if it isn't game dressing, if it isn't woodland survival house building (which really, an axe will do most the work) the grand majority of cutting, is on the surface, and a couple layer swiss army knife can do it.
Even in a self defense situation, a swiss classic can do the job. It doesn't need to be a tacticool tacti-ops battle blade

A point on the Bowie knife and reality. Most of the Bowie knives seemed to be carried by saloon toughs and back alley thugs. In 2001, I was quitting motorcycling after riding for most of a lifetime. But it occurred to me that I had never done a cross country ride. Like from the East coast where I lives, all the way to the Pacific and back. Sooo, I took a leave of absence from my job, (I had a great understanding boss who was my friend) and off I went. From the Maryland Atlantic coast to Bay city Oregon, and back. On the way I did stop at museums, and historic places. Places like the mountain man museum in Rifle Colorado, and Bent's Old Fort in La Junta Colorado, and the winter quarters for the men of the Lewis and Clark expedition on the Oregon coast at the mouth of the Columbia river.

One thing I noticed at these places, especially at Bents Old Fort where it was a major fur trade depot and trapper re-supply, was the absence of Bowie knives. The knives at the trading posts were all a form of plain large old butcher knives. Some were made by British firms, some were from a new American company the John Russell company, some were French in origin. But all were plain wood slab handle 6 to 8 inch thin bladed butcher knives. There was also some plain working folders that were plain friction folders like Opinel's with no locking ring, and a few with simple back spring like simple large slip joint.

These were the famed mountain men. The real Jeremiah Johnsons, not the Hollywood versions. Men who went into the unexplored Rocky Mountains in winter, came out in spring to sell their furs to traders at trading posts or spring rendezvous where they resupplied for the coming year. I didn't see a single bowie knife anywhere. I did see Bowie knives at the Baca House museum in Trinidad Colorado, where a Bowie knife was shown in an exhibit of some local outlaw who knifed and killed a local citizen, and was hung after the trial. I saw a few Bowie knives in the museum at Old Ft. Hays, Kansas, the army cavalry post. They had a few Sheffield made bowies that a few of the soldier carried on the campaign against the Indians, but they were outnumbered by the plain wood handle butcher knives and lots of simple folding knives used by the "Sodbusters" who homesteaded the plains. And most of those folders looked like those recovered from the wreck of the Steamboat Arabia. But it seemed like the humble pocket knife was the main choice on the western frontier, especially after the self contained metallic cartridge was invented.

The only thing I am mystified about is, why a 21st century office cubicle worker or even 21st century anyone, needs more knife than a 1800's pioneer farmer or trapper?

As far as any self defense issues, I'll defer to the high speed operators in the practice-tac forum. I did see one episode of Cops once, where two idiots got into a fight, and one guy pulled a pocket knife and sliced the other idiot really good. Blood all over the place. The cops had the bloodstained knife on the car hood while the cuffed idiot was shoved inside and the other idiot was taken away in an ambulance. It was plain as day when the camera zoomed in. It was a SAK of some kind, with a corkscrew. It had done a serious number on the guy who got cut. A knife is a knife. If it's sharp, it will seriously cut. Doesn't matter if it's a ninja death dealer 2000, or a SAK.