A2 Steel Update

This entire topic is interesting. I can't wait to see what they are gonna charge for these things. I can't wait to see the customer reviews, not that I expect them to be bad, just interesting.

From a public relations perspective I can't imagine why they would deliberately go down this path. Why START in the hole? Why begin by having to justify what most consider sub par materials? A great chef can maybe make cheap goat assholes taste like top sirloin, but it's still crazy as hell to feature 'Spicy Goat Ass' on your steakhouse menu-- even if you post a video of the chef savoring every nibble.

Again, it's a PR debacle. Cold Steel hasn't even made one of these yet, and they are already releasing videos trying to convince people that they haven't lost their minds and its not gonna be that bad. From a marketing perspective ' Not that bad' is nowhere you want to be.

The answer to any business question that begins with the word "why" is "money," and so it is here. I'm sure these knives will be fine for what they are. But unless the 4034 Trailmaster proof video has Tom Cruise scaling the Eiger wall hammering in these knives as pitons, I probably won't be buying one. I am gonna skip the savory goat and order the sirloin.

EDIT FOR CLARITY
 
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Crawford Model 1 in 4034 out now for $39.99. Kinda funky looking for a CS Folder, should be some good reviews coming soon on here hopefully.
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Chris_Texas said:
This entire topic is interesting. I can't wait to see what they are gonna charge for these things. I can't wait to see the customer reviews, not that I expect them to be bad, just interesting. I can't imagine why they would deliberately go down this path.

Why START in the hole? Why begin by having to justify what most considered sub par materials? A great chef can maybe make goat assholes taste like top sirloin, but it's still crazy as hell to feature 'Spicy Goat Ass' on the steakhouse menu-- even if you post a video of the chef savoring every nibble.

Cold Steel hasn't even made one of these yet, and they are already releasing videos trying to convince people that they haven't lost their minds and its not gonna be that bad. From a marketing perspective that's nowhere you want to be.

The answer to any business question that begins with the word "why" is "money". So it is here. I'm sure these knives will be fine for what they are. But unless the 4034 Trailmaster proof video has Tom Cruise scaling the Eiger wall hammering in these knives as pitons, I probably won't be buying one. I am gonna play it safe and order the sirloin.
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Yeah, we are all aware that one of reasons why they chose 4034 over SK-5 is money. I get that since they are doing this to make for a living.

And I definitley agree with what you said for marketing. It would take something really outrageous to make me want one.
goldie said:
Hey what other company does ANY testing of their knives with videos like this? At least they make an effort to show what can be expected from their knives. And with that said, how cant you respect a company like this ?
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True, this is a really nice gesture from their side.

I used to really like CS videos, I watched them often as a teenager too and was wishing I had some of those some day. But after the videos shifted to dungeon - it just lost appeal.

There was really something in cutting up ropes or pig and ribs on stage. Also stabbing car hoods or ammo cans in some kind of workshop. And my favourite, battoning them through bones or battoning them through thick wooden posts (not in a way to split the wood). I really liked that vibe.

New videos are just something else. I no longer find joy in watching them, which is sad. I prefer vintage CS videos.
 
I watched part of that video and I an perplexed. Spine whacking a fixed blade? That doesn't make sense. Spine whacks test the lock of folding knives and if you look close that is testing nothing in the video.

The 100 cuts on rope? By drilling a hole in the blade and using a fixture to bear down and cut the rope? That makes no sense. Look at how hard the knife is being pushed down to cut the rope by looking at Andrews arms and hands. It must be super dull to have to push that hard. It's supposed to go up to something like 30 grams of pressure measured cutting force and when it exceeds that your knife is too dull. Looks like Andrew exceeds 30 lbs and not 30 grams. Having a sharpness test built in helps keep the video from wrongly making it seem the knife is actually staying sharp. This video tells me the testing is superficial and designed to make the performance look higher than it really is. Look at the video again but with a critical eye this time.
 
I think the spine whacks were too show the knife would break at the handle junction. Now, whether or not the test is valid or the strength was in doubt at all is another question.
 
Well, if any of you bros decide to pick up the 4034 knives, please do use them and review ‘em for the rest of us here. As for me, I’ll probably stick with CS folders which have all impressed me so far. Still missing the AD-10, 4-Max Scout, Ultimate Hunter, Rajah 2, and a whole bunch of others lol.
 
I grabbed an Outdoorsman Lite, but haven't used it yet due to back surgery and extreme heat that's just starting to ease up. I want to see how it does on oak and mesquite.

I will say, when I opened the package I was reminded of what I love about Cold Steel. While the knife isn't perfect, the grind at the tip is off a little, it's a great knife. Other than the cosmetic issue at the tip, which is a non-issue on a $25 knife, it's superb. The overall quality, the design and execution, the balance and feel, they're all so good. It represents everything that's made CS a favorite of mine. If the 4034 holds up, I'll be thrilled.
 
jdk1 said:
I grabbed an Outdoorsman Lite, but haven't used it yet due to back surgery and extreme heat that's just starting to ease up. I want to see how it does on oak and mesquite.

I will say, when I opened the package I was reminded of what I love about Cold Steel. While the knife isn't perfect, the grind at the tip is off a little, it's a great knife. Other than the cosmetic issue at the tip, which is a non-issue on a $25 knife, it's superb. The overall quality, the design and execution, the balance and feel, they're all so good. It represents everything that's made CS a favorite of mine. If the 4034 holds up, I'll be thrilled.
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This is what we need :D

The Mastiff said:
I watched part of that video and I an perplexed. Spine whacking a fixed blade? That doesn't make sense. Spine whacks test the lock of folding knives and if you look close that is testing nothing in the video.

The 100 cuts on rope? By drilling a hole in the blade and using a fixture to bear down and cut the rope? That makes no sense. Look at how hard the knife is being pushed down to cut the rope by looking at Andrews arms and hands. It must be super dull to have to push that hard. It's supposed to go up to something like 30 grams of pressure measured cutting force and when it exceeds that your knife is too dull. Looks like Andrew exceeds 30 lbs and not 30 grams. Having a sharpness test built in helps keep the video from wrongly making it seem the knife is actually staying sharp. This video tells me the testing is superficial and designed to make the performance look higher than it really is. Look at the video again but with a critical eye this time.
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And I agree, even with conjunction it looked like he's getting tired and is using a lot of force to power through that rope.
 
Regardless of my trepidation about using a seemingly lower end steel for a flagship model I know that I'm still enough of a CS fanboy that I'll undoubtedly purchase this new version of the Trailmaster.
If it turns out to be a tough, budget Bowie, I'll gladly drink my portion of the kool-aid.
I would hope that the design incorporates the contoured tang/guard juncture that relieves any stress that could cause issues with batoning etc.
I also hold out hope that the price will be at a low to midrange level that will appeal to the novice user as well as the jaded oldsters like me.
Doesn't everyone deserve a beater Bowie?
Another bonus would be adjusting the sheath design to avoid dulling of the edge.
The drop forged line hasn't had this issue in my experience so hopefully it'll be in line for the new models.
I'll get in the early lines when this piece makes it's debut. I hope that all of us who have expressed doubts will be thoroughly proved wrong.
 
The Mastiff said:
I watched part of that video and I an perplexed. Spine whacking a fixed blade? That doesn't make sense. Spine whacks test the lock of folding knives and if you look close that is testing nothing in the video.

The 100 cuts on rope? By drilling a hole in the blade and using a fixture to bear down and cut the rope? That makes no sense. Look at how hard the knife is being pushed down to cut the rope by looking at Andrews arms and hands. It must be super dull to have to push that hard. It's supposed to go up to something like 30 grams of pressure measured cutting force and when it exceeds that your knife is too dull. Looks like Andrew exceeds 30 lbs and not 30 grams. Having a sharpness test built in helps keep the video from wrongly making it seem the knife is actually staying sharp. This video tells me the testing is superficial and designed to make the performance look higher than it really is. Look at the video again but with a critical eye this time.
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I believe the purpose of the spine whacks was to highlight the knife's impact toughness. That model has a bone breaker ground into the spine of the blade. Yes, it's more obtuse than the primary edge, but the fact that it didn't chip or deform is still noteworthy.

As for the amount of effort needed to cut the rope, I can't comment. I've never powered through a piece of rope that thick with a knife that size, so I don't know how much force is required.
 
Kels73 said:
I believe the purpose of the spine whacks was to highlight the knife's impact toughness. That model has a bone breaker ground into the spine of the blade. Yes, it's more obtuse than the primary edge, but the fact that it didn't chip or deform is still noteworthy.

As for the amount of effort needed to cut the rope, I can't comment. I've never powered through a piece of rope that thick with a knife that size, so I don't know how much force is required.
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Honestly probably a good bit, sharp knife or not. He was getting clean cuts though, which tells me that knife was sharp. Hair shaving, probably not. Definitely a workable edge though.
 
Realistically, for a lower-end steel, I’m not expecting much in terms of edge retention. However, as long as the knife decently holds well against chipping, edge rolling, and warping when wailing on small branches and thin trees while being priced reasonably, I’d say that’s a good deal. At the end of the day, what matters is having a safe, functional knife.
 
I'm tempted to buy one Outdoorsman lite just to:
1. Test it's tip by prying wood.
2. Do a spine whack test by using real force, while hitting actual bone, not some rod made out of mystery metal.
3. Try chopping some dry oak with it.
4. Baton it through some knotty piece of wood.

Why batoning?
Well, E EatingSarma batoned his D2 Manly Patriot through some pieces of wood, he used it to knock of oedges of larger log before batoning it too. He passed through some knots too, knife had no damage and was still shaving sharp.

Outdoorsman lite has the same stock thickness as that Manly Patriot (4mm) with an advantage that Patriot is full flat grind while Outdoorsman is saber grind, and blade itself is taller.
D2 is also usually known to be brittle (but I have different personal experience with it).
So Outdoorsman should be able to handle it.

I might really have to put my goggles on and be like: "Will it bend?" and then proceed to baton it into a log :D
 
The Mastiff said:
I watched part of that video and I an perplexed. Spine whacking a fixed blade? That doesn't make sense. Spine whacks test the lock of folding knives and if you look close that is testing nothing in the video.

The 100 cuts on rope? By drilling a hole in the blade and using a fixture to bear down and cut the rope? That makes no sense. Look at how hard the knife is being pushed down to cut the rope by looking at Andrews arms and hands. It must be super dull to have to push that hard. It's supposed to go up to something like 30 grams of pressure measured cutting force and when it exceeds that your knife is too dull. Looks like Andrew exceeds 30 lbs and not 30 grams. Having a sharpness test built in helps keep the video from wrongly making it seem the knife is actually staying sharp. This video tells me the testing is superficial and designed to make the performance look higher than it really is. Look at the video again but with a critical eye this time.
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The impact test is kind of like a charpy but for an actual knife. It would make since more if you saw all the knives broken over the testing. Typically we use the SRK and hit the spine behind the choil. For example this is how we found out the A-2 was failing. I have maybe tested 10 steel types with some various heat treats all in the SRK pattern. The rope cutting is only to show you could get some work done with 4034. We are not claiming anything special about 4034 other than it is a cutlery grade steel and will work decently for a knife. Remember the model tested is also availability in 3v and San mai as the outdoorsman. So through testing we have decided that 4034 is OK for some Knives.
 
DemkoKnives said:
The impact test is kind of like a charpy but for an actual knife. It would make since more if you saw all the knives broken over the testing. Typically we use the SRK and hit the spine behind the choil. For example this is how we found out the A-2 was failing. I have maybe tested 10 steel types with some various heat treats all in the SRK pattern. The rope cutting is only to show you could get some work done with 4034. We are not claiming anything special about 4034 other than it is a cutlery grade steel and will work decently for a knife. Remember the model tested is also availability in 3v and San mai as the outdoorsman. So through testing we have decided that 4034 is OK for some Knives.
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Thanks for the response.

I know it's probably tough, but it would be awesome if you and Mr Thompson could chime in more often just to talk about things like this. The process, the things you guys look for, your thoughts about designs. I know that you guys are both martial artists, and I am very curious about what types of blade designs you guys prefer, and why.

That's what I want to see in your videos as well. Discuss the knife, tell us what you were going for. I assume any triad lock folder will withstand an insane amount of abuse, I do not personally need to see it. Upload it if you like, it damn sure can't hurt, but also upload a video of you guys talking about the product. For example, post a video describing and demonstrating why the Vaquero blade design is so good.

Finally, and this is a fairly big deal so I hope you read this far. Most cities and states restrict knives based on LENGTH (among other factors). Generally that length is listed as a maximum. A law might say less than four inches for example. In my opinion, to increase potential sales, in the future you guys should try to always make (and list) knife blades that fall just under the most common division points. Make the blade 3.4" inches long rather that 3.5". Make it 3.9" instead of 4" and so on. I travel for work and these size limits have actually prevented me fron purchasing some knives, so I can guarantee that there are some people who live in those states who cannot carry certain models for just that reason.
 
Chris_Texas said:
Make the blade 3.4" inches long rather that 3.5". Make it 3.9" instead of 4" and so on.
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I'm going to tell you right now that .1 of an inch is not going to stop you from getting in trouble. Trust me when I say you can always find that extra .1" if you want to when measuring. If you are that worried about length restrictions, get something that is a half inch less and there will be no doubt about it's size.
 
I wonder if the choice of the low grade stainless on the new Trailmasters is due to the availability of China made clones. Hopefully, this is just a stop gap measure to cover the time between the lack of the A2 blades and a better steel next year. Here are two videos on the clone:
 
unwisefool said:
I'm going to tell you right now that .1 of an inch is not going to stop you from getting in trouble. Trust me when I say you can always find that extra .1" if you want to when measuring. If you are that worried about length restrictions, get something that is a half inch less and there will be no doubt about it's size.
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Just find a gap somewhere, jam that tip in and snap it off. Problem solved.
 
"The impact test is kind of like a charpy but for an actual knife. It would make since more if you saw all the knives broken over the testing......"

Thank you for responding and the explanation. The impact testing will let you know if you have stress risers or inclusions. I should know better by now that ALL QC testing has value. My apologies.

Joe
 
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