A2 Steel Update

Cold Steel is now Sold steel.
Trail Master is Mall Master.
This explains choice to switch to pot metal...
And about stories how they tested them and are making plans for 3V versions and future and so on...
 
Smiling said:
Cold Steel is now Sold steel.
Trail Master is Mall Master.
This explains choice to switch to pot metal...
And about stories how they tested them and are making plans for 3V versions and future and so on...
Click to expand...

A 3V trailmaster would have been nice. A Chinese stamped trash steel Trailmaster sounds less appealing.
 
Has any of the CS bashing brain trust here even remotely considered the pandemic effect on steel supplies and quality of the steel now available where these knives are actually made?

It is entirely possible the contracted A2 supply did turn out to be utter crap, and that high quality made 4034 truly was better than inconsistant and alternately soft/brittle A2.

The video Lynn put out regarding the company sale also referenced production/supply problems which a larger conglomerate owner with more overseas contacts and supply chains might hopefully be able to work around and keep stock levels adequate.

Not that I do not fear a huge thinning of product lines, or even further profit maximizing/product minimizing by new investors, but you folk REALLY need to look at what has gone on this year as for international supplies and manufacture, as well as what has happened to particularly American owned companies and supplies from China, while Chinese companies get priority in every respect.
 
mtngunr said:
Has any of the CS bashing brain trust here even remotely considered the pandemic effect on steel supplies and quality of the steel now available where these knives are actually made?

It is entirely possible the contracted A2 supply did turn out to be utter crap, and that high quality made 4034 truly was better than inconsistant and alternately soft/brittle A2.

The video Lynn put out regarding the company sale also referenced production/supply problems which a larger conglomerate owner with more overseas contacts and supply chains might hopefully be able to work around and keep stock levels adequate.

Not that I do not fear a huge thinning of product lines, or even further profit maximizing/product minimizing by new investors, but you folk REALLY need to look at what has gone on this year as for international supplies and manufacture, as well as what has happened to particularly American owned companies and supplies from China, while Chinese companies get priority in every respect.
Click to expand...
you could have made your valid points without the insult part, and I'd bet it would go further and make a better impact. starting it off with the snark, usually doesn't go well on the valid points part of the post.
 
mtngunr said:
It is entirely possible the contracted A2 supply did turn out to be utter crap, and that high quality made 4034 truly was better than inconsistant and alternately soft/brittle A2.
Click to expand...
They seem to be able to get pretty good quality SK5 and 52100.
Both of those steels would be way better choice than something that's usually used for liners or knock-offs.

They could use them, but they didn't...

mtngunr said:
The video Lynn put out regarding the company sale also referenced production/supply problems which a larger conglomerate owner with more overseas contacts and supply chains might hopefully be able to work around and keep stock levels adequate.
Click to expand...
Keep dreaming, Lynn is old and has full right to retire and that's what this is. He wanted to cash out prior to his retirement.

I'm not blaming him for that, but I dislike the way how he did it and I dislike that they just surprised their employees by getting them fired for Christmas...

Sold Steel had crappy sheaths full of glass and it was ignored for a while, I had a 3V knife with gap on the handle. There was plenty of threads all about similar QC issues...

The love and passion were gone for a while now.


They could use SK5 instead of 4034, but soft 4034 is cheaper to machine and polish, those are probably going to be mass stamped out, machined and then heat treated by God knows who and God knows how, to finally be sharpened, polished and put in blister packs at your nearby gas station.

4034 is dirt cheap, they got tons of it seeing how they are massivley switching everything to that pot metal...

I never had high opinion of AUS10, AUS8 and 4116 but I'll take 4116 blade over 4034 any day!

Even 1055 would be better choice for those knives, but well... they had to go cheap route.

Now their blades will finally match the quality of their sheaths. Instead of having a good knife in a turd, now you got a turd in a turd...
 
Has any of the CS bashing brain trust here even remotely considered the pandemic effect on steel supplies and quality of the steel now available where these knives are actually made?
It is entirely possible the contracted A2 supply did turn out to be utter crap, and that high quality made 4034 truly was better than inconsistent and alternately soft/brittle A2.

It is entirely possible the A2 steels were set to be released in 2019 over a YEAR before any of the excuses.
What's the excuse now?? Poor management.
It seems in Demako's posts 4034 was tested BEFORE they were considered for release.
The same wasn't done with A2?????????/??
BS: it was done and then turned unprofitable or what ever reason.
Thompson knew when he posted a pending sale of the company.
So how are those 4034 trail masters doing???
And some retailers are still saying A2 and O1 are back ordered??
So don't tell your customers, and don't tell your retailers ANYTHING NOTHING?????????????????
 
mtngunr said:
Has any of the CS bashing brain trust here even remotely considered the pandemic effect on steel supplies and quality of the steel now available where these knives are actually made?
Click to expand...

I'm sure one or two of us thought about it. Question, did you just pop out of hibernation all of a sudden to bestow upon us these nuggets of wisdom or did you just happen to find this thread that's been active for four and a half months just now?
 
mtngunr said:
Has any of the CS bashing brain trust here even remotely considered the pandemic effect on steel supplies and quality of the steel now available where these knives are actually made?

It is entirely possible the contracted A2 supply did turn out to be utter crap, and that high quality made 4034 truly was better than inconsistant and alternately soft/brittle A2.

The video Lynn put out regarding the company sale also referenced production/supply problems which a larger conglomerate owner with more overseas contacts and supply chains might hopefully be able to work around and keep stock levels adequate.

Not that I do not fear a huge thinning of product lines, or even further profit maximizing/product minimizing by new investors, but you folk REALLY need to look at what has gone on this year as for international supplies and manufacture, as well as what has happened to particularly American owned companies and supplies from China, while Chinese companies get priority in every respect.
Click to expand...
I know everybody thinks 4034 is cheap crap, but I'm not so sure. Here's why. I have a Buck 119 hunting knife in 420HC. I also have an old Kabar that I'm pretty sure is 1095. They are practically the same size and shape. I truly can't say which is better for ease of sharpening, edge retention and toughness. Of course I haven't done any destructive testing, just normal use. But the Buck is shiny and looks like new, the Kabar looks like a grungy Vietnam survivor. Taste will vary.
Anyway, here's what Larrin Thomas wrote me about 4034: "4034 is virtually identical to 420HC and therefore can do similar things to the lauded Buck 420HC if properly heat treated, though Buck uses cryo which is uncommon for cheap production knives and provides added hardness." I happen to believe CS does about the best heat treatment in the industry. For example, apparently they've been heat treating their 3V blades in the US. Of course, new ownership is a risk. (should I buy that 3v tanto I always wanted? hmm...)
Another thing about 4034. They've stated it is Japanese-sourced. It might not even be the same as German 4034. Andrew Demko and Lynn Thompson have both said it is high performance. I am personally very happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. A big Bowie in 420HC equivalent for a good price would be very interesting.
 
Mark Spark said:
I know everybody thinks 4034 is cheap crap, but I'm not so sure. Here's why. I have a Buck 119 hunting knife in 420HC. I also have an old Kabar that I'm pretty sure is 1095. They are practically the same size and shape. I truly can't say which is better for ease of sharpening, edge retention and toughness. Of course I haven't done any destructive testing, just normal use. But the Buck is shiny and looks like new, the Kabar looks like a grungy Vietnam survivor. Taste will vary.
Anyway, here's what Larrin Thomas wrote me about 4034: "4034 is virtually identical to 420HC and therefore can do similar things to the lauded Buck 420HC if properly heat treated, though Buck uses cryo which is uncommon for cheap production knives and provides added hardness." I happen to believe CS does about the best heat treatment in the industry. For example, apparently they've been heat treating their 3V blades in the US. Of course, new ownership is a risk. (should I buy that 3v tanto I always wanted? hmm...)
Another thing about 4034. They've stated it is Japanese-sourced. It might not even be the same as German 4034. Andrew Demko and Lynn Thompson have both said it is high performance. I am personally very happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. A big Bowie in 420HC equivalent for a good price would be very interesting.
Click to expand...
No, it's crap.
 
As a further thought, I do think LT mismanaged this 4034 thing from a marketing perspective. He should have kept it a mystery steel, like SK5. Then it could have stood on its performance instead of being beaten up by steel snobs. Steel snobbery has almost driven AUS8 out of the market, one of my favorite steels.
 
Mark Spark said:
I know everybody thinks 4034 is cheap crap, but I'm not so sure. Here's why. I have a Buck 119 hunting knife in 420HC. I also have an old Kabar that I'm pretty sure is 1095. They are practically the same size and shape. I truly can't say which is better for ease of sharpening, edge retention and toughness. Of course I haven't done any destructive testing, just normal use. But the Buck is shiny and looks like new, the Kabar looks like a grungy Vietnam survivor. Taste will vary.
Anyway, here's what Larrin Thomas wrote me about 4034: "4034 is virtually identical to 420HC and therefore can do similar things to the lauded Buck 420HC if properly heat treated, though Buck uses cryo which is uncommon for cheap production knives and provides added hardness." I happen to believe CS does about the best heat treatment in the industry. For example, apparently they've been heat treating their 3V blades in the US. Of course, new ownership is a risk. (should I buy that 3v tanto I always wanted? hmm...)
Another thing about 4034. They've stated it is Japanese-sourced. It might not even be the same as German 4034. Andrew Demko and Lynn Thompson have both said it is high performance. I am personally very happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. A big Bowie in 420HC equivalent for a good price would be very interesting.
Click to expand...

So, in your words 4034 is a hidden gem?

I think I already replied you multiple times about that 4034, there's a reason why any reputable company refuses to use it for blades...

Larrin does know a lot about knives and steel, but Buck's heat treat is one thing, and Sold Steel is another thing.
And also THIS:
420HC and 4034 comparsion
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=420hc
http://zknives.com/knives/steels/4034.shtml

Sorry buddy, but they're not indentical, they are similar at best but definitley not indentical.

About trusting LTC... well, he didn't even inform his retailers or even staff... if he didn't really care about his own team what makes you think he cares about you?

Mark Spark said:
As a further thought, I do think LT mismanaged this 4034 thing from a marketing perspective. He should have kept it a mystery steel, like SK5. Then it could have stood on its performance instead of being beaten up by steel snobs. Steel snobbery has almost driven AUS8 out of the market, one of my favorite steels.
Click to expand...
SK-5 is equivalent of 1080, and I didn't see anyone talking crap about 1080 or SK5 for that matter.
At the other hand people here are asking for SK5 or even 1055! Those are definitley not high end steels!
4116 is nothing to write home about, but it's good budget steel, nothing wrong with AUS8 (but I wouldn't personally buy it, I actually like patina on my knives so that's my preference).

4034 is just cheapening out as much as they can, does it make you happy to know that knock-off Trail Masters are now made out of better steel than "real deal"?
 
Mark Spark said:
As a further thought, I do think LT mismanaged this 4034 thing from a marketing perspective. He should have kept it a mystery steel, like SK5. Then it could have stood on its performance instead of being beaten up by steel snobs. Steel snobbery has almost driven AUS8 out of the market, one of my favorite steels.
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with snobbery; 4034 is a poor steel for large knives. The same properties that make it easier to machine, makes it easier to wear and distort. There are plenty of cheap no name knives made from this garbage; why don’t you buy one and give it a try.

n2s
 
Mark Spark said:
As a further thought, I do think LT mismanaged this 4034 thing from a marketing perspective. He should have kept it a mystery steel, like SK5. Then it could have stood on its performance instead of being beaten up by steel snobs. Steel snobbery has almost driven AUS8 out of the market, one of my favorite steels.
Click to expand...
LOL
 
Mark Spark said:
I know everybody thinks 4034 is cheap crap, but I'm not so sure. Here's why. I have a Buck 119 hunting knife in 420HC. I also have an old Kabar that I'm pretty sure is 1095. They are practically the same size and shape. I truly can't say which is better for ease of sharpening, edge retention and toughness. Of course I haven't done any destructive testing, just normal use. But the Buck is shiny and looks like new, the Kabar looks like a grungy Vietnam survivor. Taste will vary.
Anyway, here's what Larrin Thomas wrote me about 4034: "4034 is virtually identical to 420HC and therefore can do similar things to the lauded Buck 420HC if properly heat treated, though Buck uses cryo which is uncommon for cheap production knives and provides added hardness." I happen to believe CS does about the best heat treatment in the industry. For example, apparently they've been heat treating their 3V blades in the US. Of course, new ownership is a risk. (should I buy that 3v tanto I always wanted? hmm...)
Another thing about 4034. They've stated it is Japanese-sourced. It might not even be the same as German 4034. Andrew Demko and Lynn Thompson have both said it is high performance. I am personally very happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. A big Bowie in 420HC equivalent for a good price would be very interesting.
Click to expand...
Okay, but the originally promised steel is far better than the two steels you mentioned (1095 & 420hc) and far better than the one now promised. To a certain degree, you are a right though. In a vacuum, 4034 isn't horrible. That said, there is a lot to be disappointed with in this steel choice when considering what we were told was going to be used. Given the company sale, proper heat treat is not as certain. Given the size of some of these blades, a proper carbon steel would have been preferable.

At the end of the day, we were told we would get a near premium carbon steel in A2, from a well established and respected company. But now we are getting a bottom tier stainless, from a company only recognizable in name, a complete unknown. There is reason to be concerned.

And you mentioned price. It will be hard to charge what people would have been willing to pay for these knives with A2 if they use 4034, expertly heat treated or not.

Bigfattyt said:
I sure do! I jave a pile of Opinel that were $6 each....and I just love them!!
Click to expand...
Fast food meals are going for north of $12 these days? Looks like mostly staying away from that type of food isn't just helping my waist line but also my wallet!
 
I'll only consider buying it if it comes with a nice pocket friendly sharpening stone and a hammer for under 50€...

Given the content of alloying elements and carbon, you'll definitely need a sharpening stone, and also probably a hammer too, so you can hammer it back straight when it gets bent...
 
be been considering this over some time now....I'll consider buying it in 4034 only if it comes in low dollars price point like the knives its competing against now. for a premium amount still no thanks.
 
jbmonkey said:
be been considering this over some time now....I'll consider buying it in 4034 only if it comes in low dollars price point like the knives its competing against now. for a premium amount still no thanks.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I'd give one a try if the price is right!
 
Smiling said:
They seem to be able to get pretty good quality SK5 and 52100.
Both of those steels would be way better choice than something that's usually used for liners or knock-offs.

They could use them, but they didn't...


Keep dreaming, Lynn is old and has full right to retire and that's what this is. He wanted to cash out prior to his retirement.

I'm not blaming him for that, but I dislike the way how he did it and I dislike that they just surprised their employees by getting them fired for Christmas...

Sold Steel had crappy sheaths full of glass and it was ignored for a while, I had a 3V knife with gap on the handle. There was plenty of threads all about similar QC issues...

The love and passion were gone for a while now.


They could use SK5 instead of 4034, but soft 4034 is cheaper to machine and polish, those are probably going to be mass stamped out, machined and then heat treated by God knows who and God knows how, to finally be sharpened, polished and put in blister packs at your nearby gas station.

4034 is dirt cheap, they got tons of it seeing how they are massivley switching everything to that pot metal...

I never had high opinion of AUS10, AUS8 and 4116 but I'll take 4116 blade over 4034 any day!

Even 1055 would be better choice for those knives, but well... they had to go cheap route.

Now their blades will finally match the quality of their sheaths. Instead of having a good knife in a turd, now you got a turd in a turd...
Click to expand...
I’m a fan of good ole SK5 and 52100. Shame they don’t use it on some of their products. The Marauder should be offered in a manly carbon steel, dammit.
 
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