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Advice needed: false advertising?

When this knife was sold as new, was this an accurate description?

  • Yes

  • No

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Sharperthansticks

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I bought a Hinderer XM-18 off of someone from another site. He's probably not a knife collector, and claims that he got this knife as part of a competition about 6 years ago. He was a firearms instructor, and after the winners of the competition picked their knives, the instructors were able to grab the remaining ones. He represented this knife as new, without box and just sitting in his drawer for all these years. The knife came today. There are three issues that have me concerned with its representation as being new:
  1. There is rust on the jimping of the flipper tab.
  2. The bevel does not look like a factory grind, though this is my first Hinderer knife, so I don't have anything to compare it to.
  3. The detent is really soft to the point that it will not fully deploy without a wrist flick.
You can see the issues here. Do you guys think I'm entitled to a refund? I'm not asking if the issues can be fixed. I'm focused on whether or not this knife should legitimately have been described as new. The seller did attach pictures which I viewed several times, but I did not notice these issues until the knife was right in front of me.

Link to pictures and video: https://imgur.com/a/L9bupPh
 
That's likely not rust. My Hinderer had that same coloring to its jimping, and I'm pretty sure I've seen it in photos of others.

Weak detent and needing a "trick" to flip was apparently not uncommon in older Hinderers. Mine was a gen.4, and I needed to learn how to flip it; once I had it down, it flipped just fine.

I can't speak to the bevel; I've never owned a spanto. But the action and jimping aren't out of line with the knife being new.
 
I've had xm-18s with that discoloring on the jumping. Prob from heat treat or something. But that is normal.
Weak detents are also a know issue with previous gen hinderers.
 
Agree with all of the above, his grinds were usually a little cleaner than that but that is one that he probably did not do the final sharpening on and there is no way to tell without the original box and card. I tried 2 or 3 of the early generations and never found one that did not have an extremely weak detent, it is supposedly a feature for first responder's to open it with a flick of the wrist w/o even using the flipper tab (if I remember correctly). I never did get one to flip correctly so I stayed with my ZT 0560 and 0561 but Rick supposedly put out an "educational" video on his flipping technique and people say it works, like Dadpool Dadpool , but I did not take the time to watch and learn how to flip my approx $700 flipper (that was the price at the time) since I am hard headed and thought I should not have to learn how to flip my high priced flipper knife o_O so I sold them.
 
That's why I'll only ever buy gen6. Tri-way is the only way.

Don't think you can call him on the "new" angle, but failure to disclose always sucks. Let him know you're unhappy without being accusatory and see where it goes.
 
The jimping as stated can have coloration so that doesn't look off. The earlier Gen XM-18s it was hit and miss and some had soft detents and it took loading up on the flipper tab to get them to open fully so that doesn't look off necessarily. The bevel ... most of the Spanto grinds I've seen were not like that at the point the grinds meet towards the tip ... but I have seen a couple that were like that so it may not have been sharpened post factory. It seems once in awhile there was a bevel on a Spanto like that.

I can't say it is NIB and am not sure why it wouldn't have had the box if it was given as a prize NIB ... but everything looks like it could be.
 
Mine from that time frame has the same looks, weak detent also. It flips out better using the thumb studs. The spanto I have had similar grinds, I sent it to Big Chris and he made it a slicer. Works much better now.

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Firstly congrats on your XM18.

I find that flipping a Spanto works best with your index finger pressing on the jimping of the filpper tab and pushing it directly towards the pivot direction rather than puling it. The grey/brownish looks like rust on the jimping is normal. All you need is a high grit sandpaper (#2000 or higher) and clean it. You would only have to do it once. I have read somewhere that the discolouration is the result of of heat treatment on the blade. On the cutting bevels on the blade, it does look unbalance, which a sharpener such as a wicked edge system could ge it right, which I did on my gen 4 Xm18-3.5". A 20 degree per side works very well IMO.
 
How much did you pay for the knife?
I have bought watches at a good price and whatever small issues there were it was still worth it to me.
 
I have a spanto and it has the same uneven grind, at the same spot, which is right at the part where the profile of the blade changes. It is probably unavoidable because of the changing blade profile.
 
All that is pretty normal for a 6 year old XM. The discoloration is from heat treat, the grind is wider at the tip since Spantos are thicker behind the edge there, and they were infamous for their light detents back then. I don't think the seller is trying to pull a fast one on you, especially since you said he's not a knife collector. He probably didn't even know it could be an issue. If I was buying an older XM, I'd expect it to be just like that.
 
Looks like an original edge. Weak detent was very common, snd was said to be a "feature" that made it easier for firemen/police men to open the knife with a hard wrist flip, rather than thumb stud or tab.

A bit of practice will allow you to flip it open better.

I don't see anything off about the knife.

Use it, and enjoy it....or complain and return it. Bur it is pretty normal for what I have seen over rhe years.
 
Sharperthansticks said:
I bought a Hinderer XM-18 off of someone from another site. He's probably not a knife collector, and claims that he got this knife as part of a competition about 6 years ago. He was a firearms instructor, and after the winners of the competition picked their knives, the instructors were able to grab the remaining ones. He represented this knife as new, without box and just sitting in his drawer for all these years. The knife came today. There are three issues that have me concerned with its representation as being new:
  1. There is rust on the jimping of the flipper tab.
  2. The bevel does not look like a factory grind, though this is my first Hinderer knife, so I don't have anything to compare it to.
  3. The detent is really soft to the point that it will not fully deploy without a wrist flick.
You can see the issues here. Do you guys think I'm entitled to a refund? I'm not asking if the issues can be fixed. I'm focused on whether or not this knife should legitimately have been described as new. The seller did attach pictures which I viewed several times, but I did not notice these issues until the knife was right in front of me.

Link to pictures and video: https://imgur.com/a/L9bupPh
Click to expand...
I haven't read any of the responses so forgive me if this has been covered....

First, wrong section. This belongs in the GB&U.

Now, you bought a 6 year old knife that was a giveaway in a competition (likely been through many hands) without a box and thought it was new?

Weak detent on a hinderer? This is common knowledge, especially with one of this vintage. You've got to do your research when buying old used expensive things.

That isn't rust. I'm sure there is a technical description for it that I am unaware but you find that on many machined and/or heat treated things. My 0560 has it, as well as several other higher end knives.

I don't see anything wrong with the grind, but the picture isn't great and it is hard to judge without in hand. Factory grinds can be all over the place with any knife. The only thing that would justify a return on an edge is if it misrepresented as new or unsharpened.

If you paid with G&S I am sure you could return this knife just fine, I'm not sure it is justified though and I don't think the seller misrepresented it to the degree you think. Calling it "new" isn't exactly right but many one liner descriptions aren't. At the end of the day, you need to judge if the detailed description fits the one liner hashtag. To me, this one does not. That said, if you continue to buy old used expensive items off the internet with the kind of forethought you put into this purchase, I predict similar "issues".

Sorry if that came across as rather crass but it is the truth, at least the way I see it. Seems like you need to do more research and/or read more to gain more knowledge. This thread can indeed be a valuable learning experience.
 
That grind looks good to me. As mentioned above the change in grind thickness is due to the change in main bevel angle where the spanto tip section begins. My Swamp Rat Taliwhacker has the same edge feature.
The fact that you have a nice thick edge bevel on the tip section indicates a nice acute sharpening angle (which is a good thing). If the opposite side looks the same I’d say the grind is close to perfect.
 
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Looks good to me.

On the flipping of the old ones from seeing your video. You need to push button that bad boy, not light switch it.
 
If I recall he use to say it wasn't a flipper but a guard, than it got switched to "oh, it's tuned for first responders", then I guess he silently relented and put a stronger detent in teh Gen 6 models. I don't know how this impacts first responders. I imagine they're out there struggling to open their knives in harm's way without having that signature floppy detent.
 
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