Advise from fellow Busse forumites on AR uppers.

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pbubsy

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First and foremost: Mods-if you feel this is inappropriate for the Busse forum I apologize, I like the people here and trust their judgement :D after all...we're all nuts for INFI :D. I figured this would be a good place to glean some gun wisdom too.

On to my situation:

Over the course of the next several months I'm going to build a couple AR's, I figured it was time since Kalifornia is closing in on gun owners more and more & if I don't make a couple builds now, I might not be able to in the future due to things being made illegal here and all that bahtwa.

I'm starting with a couple JD Machine Tech lowers. I've heard nothing but good things about them and even heard that they've manufactured lowers for other companies so I figured they'd be decent. At $89 each, and looking like they're good quality I couldn't resist. Plus they're made LITERALLY a block from my work here in SD and THAT is cool :D they have a lifetime guarantee and I can just waltz in there and get taken care of if I need to use it.

I've already decided on building an M4 on one and and a target/varmit type long heavy barrel with the other.

I've already decided on Chip Mccormick triggers after using a friends and am figuring what kind of stocks and other accessories I want to put on but I know nothing about uppers.

What would you guys recommend? Would it be worthwhile to build my own or buy a complete one for one or both builds. I'm looking for something high quality. Especially on the heavy barreled build. I want sub MOA capability if not half MOA capability on the heavy barreled one and I wouldn't mind MOA or damn close to it on the M4 either.

I'm trying to keep within 1k on each upper but can stretch a little if I need to. I've been saving up for the past year and a half for this specifically so I intend to do it right.

Any recommended websites, brands, build combo's etc? I want the M4 to be a cqb type build with quad rail and all kinds of goodies mounted but the other is going to be a bench gun. I want put some glass on it and merc out some prairie dogs this next year :D.
 
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I have a sabre defence m4 and it is really nice. However, everyone is going towards piston driven uppers because of the reliability. HK416 and the FN Scar are pretty much the "INFI" level of Ar uppers with regards to reliability and durability. You can throw them in mud, ice, water, and they will not stop. Having said that, they are unaffordable. LWRC is the best reasonable piston driven upper made, the complete rifles are around 2grand, but they eat all ammo, even teflon coated cheap wolf ammo flawlessly. The bushmaster ACR rifle is cool too, but i have heard the lowers have trouble accepting some magpul pmags. ruger just made a piston rifle, but everyone says to just spend the extra money on LWRC. the upper would prob run 1000+ on gunbroker, but it will fire every time, plus they have cold hammer forged barrels and nicorr coatings on the barrels for supreme durabilitty. i would not put an upper that expensive on an $89 lower though. maybe you could get an LWRC as an "end of the world" rifle and get gas impingment upper for your lowers. Rockriver arms, sabre defence, and dpms are all top of the line IMO, and their uppers are reasonable. If you can find ammo, you can get a .458 socom upper thru rock river arms, u can even use 223 mags, only it holds 10 rds of .458, it is a brutal round though, Look up http://www.teppojutsu.com/ it has info on that round. u can carry both uppers for different situations and one lower with the same magazines, pretty cool. Be careful about using uppers and lowers of diff. brands if they are not mil-spec they will have problems. I had to do alot of review searches on google to figure it all out, , u are going to want an lwrc after you youtube some videos of the abuse it can take, it gets .5moa i think in most reviews. hope this helps. Now all we need is a Busse bayonet for our M4's!!!!
 
I would highly recommend LMT or BCM for the M4 upper and BCM for the varmint style upper. They're both top notch manufacturers.
 
As far as I'm concerned there should be more AR talk in the Busse forum. I've never built, and only own a complete Stag 2T so I can't really contribute. I've heard nothing but good things about the above mentioned LMT, BCM and Saber Defense. I've also heard Spike's Tactical has a few very nice uppers and their customer service is excellent.

Have you considered a DI vs Piston system... or will these be DI only?
 
PWS; as good a piston upper as there is, we run them like a scalded dog without failures. They also give a 10% discount to military and LE, just call for it.
 
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I vote BCM! Go mid-length though. ;)
 
If I was laying out for an upper right now, I would definitely go for a dedicated piston driven design. The direct gas is just too danged dirty (I own a Bushmaster, and also used to have another AR-pistol).

The newer designs that have the recoil spring over the barrel, as opposed to in the butt stock really makes it more versatile in regards to folding stocks etc.
 
Bigfattyt said:
If I was laying out for an upper right now, I would definitely go for a dedicated piston driven design. The direct gas is just too danged dirty (I own a Bushmaster, and also used to have another AR-pistol).

The newer designs that have the recoil spring over the barrel, as opposed to in the butt stock really makes it more versatile in regards to folding stocks etc.
Click to expand...

Piston driven AR platforms still use a buffer and recoil spring in the buffer tube of the stock though. Are we talking about different animals?
 
All I ever hear about pistons is that they are very picky eaters. I want my ar to run all of the time no matter what ammo is on hand. DI for me.
 
Another vote for LMT. Get the MRP...then grab a 6.8 barrel and a .22 barrel from Spikes.
 
adrock1978 said:
Piston driven AR platforms still use a buffer and recoil spring in the buffer tube of the stock though. Are we talking about different animals?
Click to expand...

There are a few rifles such as the Sig 556, ACR and Robinson Armaments XCR that are based on the AR that so not use a buffer spring and tube and have folding stocks. Z-M Weapons makes a drop in upper that does not use a buffer tube and spring and would allow a folding stock to be used on an AR. There may be others out there but these are the ones that I know of.

As to the OPs question. I have a Bushmaster M4 clone that I think is a great rifle and have had no issues with after approx 1000 rounds fired through it. However I like the idea of improved reliability so I am going to install a piston kit into it at some point. If I was building from scratch I might consider getting their piston upper. I personally have not heard anything bad about any of the major manufactures so I guess it comes down to how much you want to spend and what type of operating system you want. Unfortunately piston uppers cost more regardless of who you buy from.

The one thing that I would stress regardless of who you purchase from is get a barrel that is spec for 5.56 as it is rated for high chamber pressures and then you can shoot .223 and 5.56 ammo. The reverse is not true with a .223 chamber however.
 
I was checking out the Spikes Tactical Biohazard Upper & Lower set. They appear to be pretty beefy, at least in the pics on their site. I like the looks but I'm not sure if I like them 500.00 dollars worth. Seems a tad high for a upper & lower set in 5.56. But then you can always argue that you get what you pay for. But I haven't heard enough about Spikes Tactical to know if it would be wise to pay that much for them or not.



adrock1978 said:
As far as I'm concerned there should be more AR talk in the Busse forum. I've never built, and only own a complete Stag 2T so I can't really contribute. I've heard nothing but good things about the above mentioned LMT, BCM and Saber Defense. I've also heard Spike's Tactical has a few very nice uppers and their customer service is excellent.

Have you considered a DI vs Piston system... or will these be DI only?
Click to expand...
 
The piston upper is a solution for a problem that does not exist in the AR. The DI system has worked reliably for decades, why change now? The AR was designed for the DI system and it works. The DI will be dirtier, but I have still never had a problem with an AR jamming up due to dirt or not being clean. Run it wet and run it dirty. It will work fine.

As for your build, there are many manufacturers that will work just fine. BCM, Spikes and all the others mentioned in this thread are good to go. If you want to buy some of the finest, LMT, Noveske, Larue, all make outstanding rifles that could probably get you to your precision requirement of sub-moa or even 1/2moa. Good luck to you, there are way too many options out there.
 
lsheldon said:
I was checking out the Spikes Tactical Biohazard Upper & Lower set. They appear to be pretty beefy, at least in the pics on their site. I like the looks but I'm not sure if I like them 500.00 dollars worth. Seems a tad high for a upper & lower set in 5.56. But then you can always argue that you get what you pay for. But I haven't heard enough about Spikes Tactical to know if it would be wise to pay that much for them or not.
Click to expand...

Spikes Tactical is a Top notch company with GREAT quality products at awesome prices..
Also their customer service is outstanding!!!

I have been dealing with them for quite some time and they have NEVER
let me down..

They remind me of the fine folks at Busse & Kin.. That says ALOT!
 
I have an upper I bought from Model 1 sales. It has a Wilson 1/9 heavy stainless 1" diameter 18" long varmint barrel. Has an aluminum free float handguard and a flat top with a gas block (no front sight).Shoots really well and did not cost an arm and a leg.I get 1.5" groups at 100 yds without a target trigger just an accuwedge. With the right trigger MOA would be easy.With the 18" barrel it has plenty of weight but is easy to carry.Model 1 has been around for a long time.
I try to always get the most bang for my buck and I am sure you know it would be easy to exceed your 1k just in the cost of some uppers.I look at the AR as a 200-250 yard gun for precision shooting beyond that I go to a bolt action just because of the cost to build an AR that will shoot MOA beyond that distance.Good luck with your builds.
 
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